Evgeny Bazhanov

Russia Today: Have there been any significant achievements on the first day of the summit?

Evgeny Bazhanov: Well, I think we can talk about achievements, because as we remember, recently there have been a lot of harsh words said between Russia and the West, especially the U.S., and real problems have developed between the West and Russia. The first day showed that the leaders of the G8, especially Mr Putin and Mr Bush, came to the summit not to trade accusations, but to try to solve issues. And both of them said that they needed co-operation between Russia and the U.S. This fact alone is already very important. And, of course, in addition to this Mr Putin has made a few very interesting proposals for America which, if accepted, can help the two countries’ relations and security in the world.

RT: Do you think there are chances that these proposals will be accepted by the U.S.?

E.B.: Yes, if we talk about this proposal to have a common anti-missile system based in Azerbaijan, I think it is very reasonable. If the Americans are really afraid of possible attacks from the Middle East, then, I suppose, they should accept this proposal, and I guess that finally they will accept it, maybe with some modifications. Of course, there will by a lot of opposition within the administration, especially within the Congress, but sooner or later, if the Americans are interested in opposing those threats and in co-operation security issue with Russia, not opposing Russia’s security field, they will accept the proposal, in my opinion.

RT: Although the negotiations between Mr Putin and Mr Bush are obviously in the centre of attention, we know that the Russian President will have some other bilateral meetings. Are there any breakthroughs expected there?

E.B.: I don’t think we will see any breakthroughs, but what is important, I stress it again, is that all the leaders are interested in a dialogue and all of them understand that great powers have to co-operate. And there is a great agenda for them to co-operate in – the security field, terrorism, proliferation of nuclear weapons, regional conflicts, economic field, human contacts, and there is no ideological rift among the countries as it was before. I think that all of them understand it and all of them are interested in a dialogue and solving the issues, so it is important as a start for a new period in our relations. But the conversations by themselves, of course, cannot solve those issues because some of them are quite serious. 

Earlier, Evgeny Bazhanov joined Russia Today to share his view on the current Russia-U.S. relations.

Russia Today: First of all, the U.S. plans to deploy the anti-missile shield in Europe - is this one of the truly burning issues in the relations between Russia and the U.S. today? Many say this even could lead to another Cold War in the relations of the two countries. Do you think it is really that serious?

Evgeny Bazhanov: Well, certainly it is a serious question because we do not understand why these missiles should be near Russian borders defending America against North Korea and Iran. But I don’t think that the Cold War is possible because the Cold War from my point of view was a result of the division of the world into two economically, politically and ideologically opposing camps. Now the world is not divided into them. Russia is building a democratic society, Russia wants to have the market economy. America should be interested in this, and it is interested in this. So at worst we can talk about the ‘Cold Peace’, but not the Cold War.

RT: This is not the only problem in the relationship between the two countries. For instance we know the problem of Kosovo independence, Iranian nuclear problem. Is this crisis between the two countries in general that deep?

E.B.: It is deep in a sense that I have already mentioned. I don’t think that the countries are divided into opposing camps but there is still great power rivalry. America wants to be the ultimate leader of the world and accept others as junior partners only. But Russia does not want to be a junior partner any longer. As our economy grows we want to re-assert our position in the world and sometimes we compete and clash with the American interests and its position. However, I do not think the Cold War is possible because Russia and America need each other in this new globalising world, which is not divided into two or three opposing camps. We need each other in the sphere of security where there is a great agenda for the mutual work; in the sphere of proliferation of nuclear weapons, fighting terrorism, drugs and organised crime, in solving regional conflicts, etc. We also need each other in the field of economy as Russia needs American technologies, finances, trade with the U.S. as they need co-operation with us in the energy field and other ones. Let us consider human relations as well, as Russians live and work in America and travel there. Simultaneously more and more Americans come to Russia to live and to work. Finally, the ideological factor which means the building of a democratic society. We need to have good relations with the strongest democracy in the world and the Americans are interested in Russia developing that way. So, despite all the differences and rivalry there is a basis for more or less normal relations and competition between two great states.

Earlier Evgeny Bazhanov shared with Russia Today his views about Russian-American relations in context of the visit of the U.S. Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice to Moscow.

Russia Today: There are a lot of unresolved issues, differences between Russia and the U.S.. Why do you think the relations between two countries have plummeted so much?

Evgeny Bazhanov: I don’t think they have plummeted so much. There are differences between Russia and America because both states are major and ambitious states. And of course their national interests do not coincide on all issues. It is natural for states to have differences. At this particular point,  the main issue is the deployment American missile systems in Eastern Europe. It is an outstanding issue for us because our government doesn’t understand why the Americans have decided to have the system installed in Eastern Europe. So we have to discuss it. They have to explain it, and we have to explain our position. And I think, soon or later, we will find the right solution  because both sides need good relation with each other and the whole world  needs good relations between Russia and America.

R.T.: Russia has strongly opposed U.S. plans to build elements of a missile defence shield in Eastern Europe. Will many see Condoleezza Rice's visit to Russia as an attempt to pressure Russia, or not pressure but maybe try to persuade Russia, to support U.S. in its plans. Is it likely to change Russia's stance on the issue?

E.B.: First of all it’s a very difficult issue, it’s not just the position of our government. It is also the position of the whole of society in Russia, which does not understand these American plans, the position of our Parliament, etc.  And on the American side again, it is not only the Administration of Mr. Bush and the Congress that is behind this, and American military circles. It is very complicated issue. It will take time to solve it. I think  Condoleezza Rice’s visit is good step in the right direction - to talk.  She will try to explain it, as you said, and I think our government will try to explain why we are against it. And sooner or later we will have to find a solution. We had differences on many issues with the  Americans in recent years and every time a solution was found: on Iran, on North Korea, on many other issues.  I am optimistic, not very much, but at least optimistic.

R.T.: What sort of solution do you think they could come up with?

E.B.: I think the kind of solution which would satisfy Russia is its desire to have its security guaranteed. It is hard to say now. As I have already said, the first of all - we have to hear what Ms Rice is going to say. Maybe she’ll say the Americans will cancel these plans. Then the solution will be found tomorrow. But, as I’ve mentioned, the main issue is our security and our trust in America, because if the Americans do something like they are trying to do in the Czech Republic, which looks to us as if it’s against Russia - at least that  shows that America doesn’t trust Russia enough. If the Americans can explain that it is not against Russia, and they still trust us, and want to work with us, I think the solution will be found. But it is difficult to figure the exact way now. 

Earlier Dr  Bazhanov shared with Russia Today his view on the U.S. State Department's Annual Human Rights and Democracy Report criticizing Russia.

Russia Today: How justified was the U.S. criticism of the human rights situation in Russia?

Evgeny Bazhanov: Well, I think that human rights are violated in actually every country. The most important thing is that how the government deals with the issue and I think that Russian government honestly tries to improve the situation in Russia. As I understand it is ready to work with other countries but do it on the basis of the international law and through the UN, not getting lessons from individual countries which is not nice, especially considering the fact that we have normal relations with the U.S. and we are partners in many issues.

RT: So, in your view this criticism is coming as a politically motivated?

E.B.: Sure, the U.S. and Russia do not agree on every issue in international relations. The U.S. is not happy with some of Russia's positions on various political issues in the world so I think that is the way on their part to show their displeasure and I do not think that we should approve these kind of lessons from the U.S.

RT: What we have just heard that the Russian Foreign Ministry’s approach and response to what has been said there, do you think that was a fair response?

E.B.: Sure, of course, our government should respond to things like this. We cannot be silent when other country criticizes our government, actually our state, for bad things inside our country. I agree with it.

RT: You have mentioned just a little bit earlier about the current relations between Russia and the U.S. particularly, which do not seem doing particularly well at the moment, I am thinking on the background of anti-missile defence systems set to be put in the Eastern Europe.

E.B.: That is right.

RT: How does this further drive a wedge, do you think, between the two countries?

E.B.: As I have said there are differences between Russia and the U.S. on quite a few issues. But at the same time I think our government and the American government understand very well that we are very important countries and we need each other, we matter to each other. We have to have normal relations and try to co-operate despite those differences. These relations are important not only for Russia and the U.S., they are important for the entire world. We are responsible, together with China and many other countries for piece and security of the world. So, we do have to continue our co-operation despite those differences.

RT: Russia also recently turned the table back on the U.S.: look at your own backyard of human rights!

E.B.: That is right. By the way, today we had American ambassador in Russia making a speech at our Diplomatic Academy. He did agree with us that there are human rights violations in the U.S. and there are a lot of problems in this respect in the U.S and as he said in every country. So, we have to work together and help each other in solving those issues instead of doing it the way it was done by the U.S. State Department, these are my words, he did not say this.

RT: Do you think that America is going about it the right way in helping to exclude human rights violations in other countries?

E.B.: Well, if it is the way it is done now – I do not think that this is a proper way. But again, if Americans work with us together helping to improve human rights situation in every respect: in economic respect, in social respect, in political respect in every country including the U.S., Russia and other countries. If it is done on a co-operative basis, with good intentions and through the UN, on the basis of the international law – of course it can play a good role, as much as Russia can.

Earlier, Dr Evgeny Bazhanov spoke to Russia Today about the U.S. Senate vote to withdraw American soldiers from Iraq by March 2008.

Russia Today: The U.S. Senate has narrowly passed this measure to set the timetable for withdrawing the U.S. troops from Iraq. What kind of message does this send, first of all, to the President George Bush’s administration, and is this the prevailing mood in the country right now that they want the troops home?

Evgeny Bazhanov: I think it has to do a lot with American politics. Democrats want to score additional points in the presidential elections and they feel that it is a very good message as far as the American people are concerned, that Americans do not want any more sacrifices in Iraq and no more humiliation for the U.S. there. But at the same time I do not think that the entire American society shares such view. I would say that it is again fifty-fifty like in the Senate those who would support such a move and at the same time there are quite a few people in America who would say that America has to stay there until the end, until the final victory.

R.T.: Do those who do want to stay until the end, they say that a pull out would send Iraq to slide into more violence. Do you see this happening as well?

E.B.: Well I think, it is not only me, I would say that everybody would agree with this, including Iraqi government who knows better then anybody else and that is what the Iraqi government says. I was, of course, very much against the American decision to send troops there but now that they are there and there is turmoil, a chaos. I think that if they withdraw now without any special preparation it would be even worse.

RT: The supporters of this bill say that by setting a withdrawal date they are, in fact, putting the Iraqis on notice that they have to get their own house in order and that they can not rely on the U.S. to provide the security forever. What would you respond to that?

E.B.: I think maybe partly it is good to give such a message to the Iraqi government but to give a message is not enough because the Iraqi government itself wants to improve the situation instantly but is not capable of doing this. I do not think that after getting this message they will be able to reverse the situation and make all necessary preparations for withdrawal within one year. So it is good to have such a message but I say it does not solve the issue.

RT: You said that not only the Democrats are perhaps trying to score political points here. There is an increasing confrontation between the U.S. Congress and the U.S. President now. The President has said he would veto any bill like this, he has the power to do that on the Constitution of the U.S. The Democrats know they can not override the veto because they do not have the votes. So, that begs the question what is the point? Is it just a political theatre?

E.B.: That is what I was trying to say. Well, maybe not a political theatre though. It is a political message to the American people in the process of the presidential elections. Of course Democrats understand all this and they understand very well that Mr Bush will surely veto this bill because if he doesn’t do it, it will be a defeat for him and for the Republican Party, a big blow for American prestige and the American positions in the world as they claim to be the sole superpower in international relations and it will be, as we already discussed, more cares for Iraq. So, of course he will not do this and of course Democrats will follow this.

Earlier Evgeny Bazhanov shared with Russia Today his opinion on the development of Sino-Russian relations.

Russia Today: The two countries were not exactly on friendly terms during the 60s and 70s, very suspicious of each other. It is a lot different now, isn't it?

Evgeny Bazhanov: Oh yes, I think our relations are better now than ever in history, and that is what is said by our President Mr Putin. And I think Chinese leaders agree with this analysis.

RT: On the diplomatic front, do Russia and China share the same views on current issues, for example Iran and North Korea?

E.B.: I would say that Russia and China have common views on most of the issues in international life; I would say 90% at least. And yes, on North Korea and Iran we have very similar views and we work together, trying to solve those issues in a peaceful manner.

RT: Although this visit has a celebratory atmosphere to it, also the start of the Year of China here in Russia, it's really about economics, isn't it? It is about strengthening economic ties and Russia really needs to do business with China. One major problem, of course, is the trade deficit - there is a huge amount of imports coming in from China, not enough going out from Russia to China. So, that surely is good news for Russia to try to redress the balance.

E.B.: I do not think business is the main issue now. As you have said it is the Year of China in Russia, it is a very important political event, and I think this is the main reason - Mr Hu Jintao came here to open this year and to present Russia. And of course business is always important between Russia and China and there are many other occasions when our business leaders, government leaders can meet and sign agreements. So, business is also present during this visit but I would insist that the political element in this visit is the most important.

RT: Oil is clearly a very important aspect.

E.B.: Surely. And it is important for both the countries - we want to export this oil to make money, and to become closer to China through this, and for China it is urgent because they need oil very much, there is a high deficit of oil for Chinese economy.

RT: And at the moment oil is going to China by train.

E.B.: Yes. And this is not very good.

RT: What about the extension of the pipeline from Russia into China, is that going to be talked upon? Do you think there would be any agreement because that is a vital issue?

E.B.: I think our leaders talk about this issue all the time, I am sure they will continue talking about it this time, but as I have said agreements do not have to be necessarily be signed on this particular occasion, but again Russia wants to export oil to China and through China to other countries in Asia, and for China it is a vital issue to have oil and gas from Russia.

RT: What does all this mean for Russian businessmen, for all businesses -small businesses, large businesses – and generally for the people of Russia? Clearly there is a language barrier between the two countries. But there is a strong economic Chinese community here in Russia already. What does it mean in the long term?

E.B.: Of course, the language barrier is not a very big issue because every nation has its own language, and this issue exists even between Russia and Poland although we have similar languages. So it is not an issue. The issue is that our economy was in bad shape a few years ago, as you know, and is now coming upward and it helps to create good atmosphere in our business relations with China, so the prospect now is much better for development of economic relations between Russia and China.

RT: So we see a lot more business is turning to the East rather than to the West at the moment?

E.B.: I hope so. But at the same time I think we should not forget about the West either, it is extremely important for us - technologies, investments, etc.

RT: An incredible economic power if the two countries get together in the future as they are, for foreseeing, now, when those two countries are together in the next 10-20 years, Russia and China will be a formidable economic force in the world.

E.B.: If you talk about an economical alliance, yes, I agree with you and I think it is going to happen. If you talk about a military alliance I do not think Russia or China need and want this alliance. We do not want to have an alliance against anybody, we want to work together with the United States and other leading countries in making our world more just and prosperous on the basis of the existing international law and on the basis of the United Nations and other international organizations. So I do not think that it is a purpose of Russia or China to have a military alliance against other major powers.