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GET IT OFF YOUR CHEST - Was Russia right to develop an alternative to America's GPS sat nav system?

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Davy August 12, 2008, 19:04: They'll be foolish not to.I admire Russia real politic though I'm confused as to its slow sometimes retard response from overt Western encroachment. It is high time Russia lay off this guilty trip and reassert its place as a leading nation. Russia still portrays a shy defensive role in its own domain and in the world at large. I agree Russia wouldn't fight any nation war but the situation in S/Ossetia suggest it have to do more above and beyond its territorial domain if it is to survive Western and Israeli encroachment.
Enrique July 22, 2008, 09:22: DCM,

Yes, but Galileo´s quality had to be watered down after US pressure:

1. It was forbidden to compete in the military field as the American Dictator Bantz J. Craddock, SACEUR of NATO-Europe didn´t allow any European autonomous initiative in that field...so we have to depend on US authorisation.

2. The orbit of the Galileo project had to be changed after US pressure which understood the first and more reliable orbit thought for Galileo would be a damage to US interests.

So the Dictatorship just decides what we can or can´t do....
D.C.M. July 16, 2008, 11:18: Definitely yes, and so was Europe.

The American GPS as a lone system was flawed in that the Americans could switch it on/off as they wished and were able to keep accuracy very limited.

The existance of several systems allows for competition and thus greater accuracy as well as stability of the system with regard to the general pulic.

As far as I know a device would however only work on 1 network...

It would be ideal if in future devices could access GPS, Glossnas and Galilieo with 1 device that compares results and thus becomes more accurate.

But going back to "was Russian right to"

Who owns space? Nobody does, countries/organisations only own the satelites and junk that is flying around up there.

And why should all technology come from America anyway?

I'd love to see some truly European products in Europe, not everything made in China...
(By the way in a special way Russia very much belongs to Europe (population manly in the European part, and through history))

Thus a Russian system is competition and opens up the market, and therefore definitely a good idea

And the military aspect, one can't help it, can one? Most things are developed for the military and then adapted for personal use, i.e. Jet Engine...
charles July 9, 2008, 20:46: without any iota of doubt,Russia as a super-power has every right to develop it's own alternative to America's gps sat nav system
Sam June 11, 2008, 03:24: Small correction to my last post.
Russians Shells are ramjet propelled self guilding like the 3BM-44M APFSDS and not self targeting as I said.Two different things.
Sam June 11, 2008, 03:11: Enrique posted- That´s great but not enough as increasingly Russian weapons rely on American, Japanese, South Korean and German microchips

And that is another popular myth.

It is in the Russian law that foreign components can not be used in their weapons for security reasons.
It was one of the points used by Ivanov, in the affair of the missile that Georgia claimed a Russian jet fired into their territory.Some of the parts found had english writtings on them and did not match.
Russians do install Western targeting computers onto their military hardware that is to be exported to a client on their request,and are supplied by the client, as with weapons sold to eastern european NATO members.Same with the south Koreans and Japanese when they buy Russian Hardware.

All computer hardware in Russian weapons for their own use is Russian.They may have been revised engineered I do not know, but they sure made them themself.

More over,Russians tend not to rely on targeting systems like the west does.Their tanks for example do not fire standard shells as the western ones do.Their shells are self targeting instead and do not need accurate targeting system.That is why Clients have their own targenting computers installed.So that they can use their own shells and not depend on the Russian self targeting ones.
Check it out yourself,It makes good reading.
Yes in the civilian sector they use Athlon,Intel etc like anyone else.

Do not think USA was able to block spanish warships sell to Venezula because it had american technology in it.It was able to do so because Spain is NATO and america has strong influence in the government.
This does not apply to Russia in anyway and they can sell what they like to whom they like as the had show many times before and all the USA can do is complain.
Enrique June 7, 2008, 02:34: Sam,

That´s great but not enough as increasingly Russian weapons rely on American, Japanese, South Korean and German microchips.

Spain tried to sell $2 billion worth of ships to Venezuela but it was de facto vetoed by the USA as the high tech used in those ships was American.
Alexey June 6, 2008, 12:33: It seems that in todays competetive world, it is only logical to see something like this to happen. You can't have one country dominating the world with it's technology, there have to be alternitives, in order to keep the balance.
Sam June 5, 2008, 10:01: No Steve, nothing laughable about my post from january.However,you missed the point of that discussion.

I was not talking about governments stealing military secrets here.I was talking about inventors whose ideas were used for decades within the USSR,with the break down of USSR their inventions were quickly patented by greedy companies before the owners knew what to do.
Take another Example.Mikhail Kalashnikov The AK47 holds no patent.Everyone (apart for Russia) is still making them but did does Mikhail get even one cent from it?
In his case there is still no patent as the time limit has long ran out.So everyone is making money off him.

K now I have give examples of two inventors being ripped off by companies.
Now Steve can you give me an example of a patent stolen by a Russian company?

The discussion had nothing to do with Governments spying on each other.
Sam June 2, 2008, 11:48: Okey Enrique seems my reply to your last post got lost somehow,so posting another.

Patent means nothing.All it shows is the American style get rich mentality that is spreading around the world.Where every Dick and Harry patents their rubbish with the hope that they can make money from it.10,000 useless patents is nothing compared to one practical one.

What ever gave you the impression that all that Russia exports is fossil fuel?
China and Korea had for years exported the stuff you will find in pound ( dollar ) shops.Thats how they make their money by large volumes of cheap stuff.
Russia on the other hand exports Expensive technology.
Advice you visit CIA fact book and check on what they export.It ranges from medical equipment to Battle Ships.
Most Chinese weapons are made in Russia or under licence,so are these of India and many countries.Even traditional American buyers like South Korea,Saudi arabia and Japan are already buying Russian military hardware.India and brazil had already gotten licences for the new 5th generation fighter and it had not yet had a test flight.By 2010 it is expected Russia will over take the USA as the main arms supplier.

In the civil sector,most nuclear stations outside the west are Russian as in Iran,India and shortly in Egypt.The had even started production of nuclear power generating ships which can be sailed to a consumers port and take over the power supply to them for 15 years then sailed back to russia for a refit.the Academician Lomonosov is the first of its kind and sails out of docks in 2010.Now that is what I call a great concept,Imagine sailing to a third world country and pluging them up to a cheap nuclear energy generator.I am sure the patent on that has already been taken if someone is getting ideas now:)

Most satillites even american are launched into orbit by the Russians.Most supplies to the ISS is by the Russians and when the shuttles are retired in 2010 the New russian orbiter the Kliper is expected to be the sole transport to the ISS.
All those deals are in millions and billions of dollars.Now is that what you call developing country:)
Am not a fan of long posts so check it out yourself on what Russia exports.Fossil fuel is a big cash earner but is not the only one they have.Their technology is well developed and apart for nuclear weapons are all kept on the market.The S400 is shortly going on sell internationally to the irritation to the USA as they are designed to "see" and take down stealth aircraft.Now that is what I call true capitalists LOL.
Steve May 31, 2008, 21:35: You have got to be kidding....
The notion that the west (especially the USA) was routinly stealing technology from the USSR is laughable. It was the other way around. Check your history books, my friend...the ones published after the fall of the Soviet regime.

sam January 27, 2008, 23:27
Tetris is nothing
Before the USSR had no need for patent.So many inventions were stolen by the west.Some of the inventors are still alive but are getting nothing.
Advice you check out Prof.Ilazorov and his External fixator ( Ilazorov splint) still bears his name,they did not even bother to change it.Very interesting history.A western company behind his back registered it.It sells £500 each.and hundreds used daily.
Robert William May 31, 2008, 02:55: For those of you, who stayed on topic. I wish to thank you, for giving me, the chance to listen to what some of you, think and feel, about the subject and question, that was asked. How different our worlds are; when I think of GPS, if I even think of it at all, it`s for going off shore, deep-sea fishing. To fish the same spot as a few day`s ago maybe? Or, when driving to some place I haven`t been before. I can just about drive right up to the front door, 200 km away. Then also, if someone is lost in a wilderness while camping they can at least tell somebody right where they are, speeding up a rescue. So, what I`m saying is, I think of GPS. only as what it can do for me. The American military, have systems way beyond GPS. that`s all old school stuff now. That`s why I can even put my hands on it and use it any way I want to, any day, I need too! >>>>>>> However, what I mostly read from those Russian`s, who wrote in on this subject, (then went off topic) was how Russia needs to have it`s own, so if we fight each other, Russia will have it`s own military GPS. type of SAT NAV system. to go by on. Then there is always the young man, who writes in, to tell us, all about kicking the West`s ass! etc.etc. Some how, those young men, seem to think that after 4000 kilo tons of bombs blow up next door, that they will still be getting up the next morning to a wonderful breakfast of cheese eggs and toast with coffee & cream. For at least 500 years, that I know of, from reading the long history of Europe. Russian leaders have for hundreds years always seem to feel second rate, in their own backyard of Europe. Long before America, was even thought of. So what`s new?? Same o`le thing; my dad, can beat-up your dad, Oh Yeah!, Yeah, Well my mom, can beat-up your mom. Oh Yeah! Well my dad`s got a bigger gun than your dad. To bad it`s got to be the same sad song, over and over again.
Sam May 27, 2008, 18:34: Enrique stop talking about patent, it means nothing what so ever.You can have thousands of people registering their rubbish with the hope that it will make some money, is not a sign of technical advancement but more of the population's mentality for get rich fast schemes that is spreading arround the world.
There is nothing impressive about it.How many of these patents have come into use?

Signs of technological achievement are inventions that actually leave the patent office and become something useful like say the technology that went into the phoenix or the Academician Lomonosov.

What ever gave you the impression that all that Russia does is export ores and crude?
China and Korea make their money exporting pound(dollar) shop items mostly.Russians export technology costing millions and billions even to the irritation of the West.Good examples are Nuclear power stations like the ones to india and Iran to name a few.

Russia is the second main exporter of advanced military hardware even to traditional USA allies like south korea,japan,saudi arabia,to the whole eastern europern NATO members and ofcourse the traditional buyers like china and india.
Russians offer their latest military techology for sale (unlike the USA) and it is estimated that by 2010 Russia will be the main weapons exporter.In fact India and Brazil had already bought the licence for the new Russian fifth generation fighter and the test fight had not even taken place.
Most of China's weapons are Russian or produced under licence.The only thing they dont export are the nuclear weapons technology.

They also export civilian techology.Ah read it for yourself
Extract from CIA factbook

Industry:complete range of mining and extractive industries producing coal, oil, gas, chemicals, and metals; all forms of machine building from rolling mills to high-performance aircraft and space vehicles; defense industries including radar, missile production, and advanced electronic components, shipbuilding; road and rail transportation equipment; communications equipment; agricultural machinery, tractors, and construction equipment; electric power generating and transmitting equipment; medical and scientific instruments; consumer durables, textiles, foodstuffs, handicrafts.

Did you know that almost all(including American) satellites are kept into orbit by the Russians?
Did you know that after the shuttles are retired in 2010,the New Russian Kliper will be the main space craft to transit to the ISS which has mostly Russian Technology in it even the modules made by other countries?
That is the sign of technology not the number of patent that every dick and harry can register.
Enrique May 26, 2008, 17:03: Sam,

I know, but the number of patents registered is important as you can realize from the examples of CHINA and SOUTH KOREA, the two nations with better improvement (with state support):

South Korea went from 2,949 patents registered in 2003 to 7,061 patents in 2007...surpassing France and the U.K.

China went from 1,295 patents in 2003 to 5,553 in 2007....an even more impressive achievement.

So, I repeat, it is a decissive step if Russia wants to be considered a developed nation to increase the number of patents filed to over 5,000 during the next decade.

If China and Korea have done it, Russia can do it.

Russia cannot be for ever a nation dependent just on raw resources (gaz,oil, commodities)....

The examples of China and South Korea (reflected also in the Shipping Industry) can be taken into account.
Sam May 24, 2008, 11:09: Sorry Enrique am not trying to rob it in,its just that you have helped me discover a new source of humour which I just have to share.
Check this out:)

Cross USB Drive
patent#: US D533179
or
Weed Cutting Golf Club
patent#: US 6988954

http://www.patentlysilly.com/