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GET IT OFF YOUR CHEST - Does the fight against terror justify secret torture prisons?

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RachEl November 21, 2007, 22:32: Suffer me to first ask...

Are they (the "fighters against terrorism")
serving turkey dinners tomorrow (on "Thanksgiving Day") to the secret torture prisoners in honor of the "pilgrims" of democracy who landed on a rock [Plymouth Rock, (Massechusetts - a Native Indian name,where they ("the founders")built an empire on a foundation of sand (torture and terror upon the Native Americans in tradition of the
original Roman Empire that continues secretly to this day; long-promoted through "established 'Christian' religion" that dates all the way back to the 4th Century thru Constantine who spread the same terror upon unconformists?]

...just something to meditate upon as countless jaws crush and grind their turkey portions in gratitude of the great bond they established with "May" and "Flower" (Bush's pardoned birds of prey)and the other two ships (besides the Mayflower)in charted waters (1620 AD) that land us today into "shock and awe" at the great "power of pride" that says, "We don't practice or condone torture."

The question really should be: What power is behind those who lead "the fight"? Isn't it readily apparent and proven that those "fighters" are the same manufacturers of mind-controlled prisoners-turned-terrorists sent on global terrorist missions?

It is apparent that such confused questions like "does the fight against terror justify secret torture prisons?" are posed by either the naive, or by the ignorance of some, or by those brain-washed, chaotic-minded who imagine there be a difference between the terrorist-makers and the torture-prisonkeepers. Or is it that the secret terrorist also can mind-control the questioner to pose an idea that blows away the facts, like at KamisiYah, Iraq (the football fields-large) place of US chemical/biological weapons stockpiles detonated, having caused two-headed babies and miriad horrors/consequences upon many continents; upon families of US soldiers as well, and upon generations for ages to come?

Happy Thanksgiving EVERY DAY (to the Creator who will destroy such secretive deceit and terror)behind such "freedom" to deceive and destroy nations.

Our thanksgiving shall be satisfied sooner than later.
fred November 20, 2007, 13:02: no , torture is absolutely USELESS !

in israel they used to "treat" peoples that way , up to the time they had some suspicions on informations ...

so they tried to obtain confessions on absurd and totally weird things ...

after the right "treatment" they obtain confessions from well "treated" supected "terrorits" ...

one of them even admitted he killed himself Jesus Christ with a rubber band ...!

informations obtain under torture are worthless , because of unhuman means , and because you never know exactly where is the frontier between Informations and Desinformations ...

nothing new into that , before D-day in Normandy , the allies used a few "decoys" feeding them with totally wrong infos ,sending them to places they had lots of chances to be caught , with the idea theirs missions were deadly important ...

they knew too well the nazis were going to do anything to make them talk ...!!!
MihalMihalich November 20, 2007, 07:21: Dear Ladies & Gentlemen

Torture is amoral & illegal, I would think in all the countries. That’s the point.

Yet, every war military POWs were tortured, because guy with captains badge may have valuable information right? But Terrorists don't have badges or ribbons, how can you tell if he is one you looking for at all? That is what makes torture so absurd.

Best Regards.
DaniYah November 20, 2007, 06:40: Dear GD:

Seems by your standards George Bush and his cronies are first in line to the interrogation room.(Already killed millions worldwide, still thirsting for more blood, can't stop...)But then, it's not a secret, right?
Woofle November 20, 2007, 05:32: Moral considerations aside, the plain fact is that torture does not work. It yields unreliable information. Al Libby told the CIA a lot of lies while under 'enhanced interrogation'. Intelligence experts have rejected torture for years.

More importantly, moral considerations should NOT be set aside. Torture is both brutal and immoral. *IF* there was some rare case where thousands or millions of lives could be saved by using torture, the person with authority could make the decision to break the law and face the consequences and plead necessity afterwards.

However, such a case will never exist, is absurd, and in any event is no argument for allowing torture as a matter of law.

Torture = illegal, immoral, useless, and always wrong.

-- ross
GD November 20, 2007, 01:39: First think you want to say to the question, is yes am against torture, for obtaining information from terrorists .......But what if you know the terrorist you have in your hands, has information of mass-population killings, that was gonne happen, would it be OK, to put his ass on fire a bit to make him talk, and by doing so you save the lifes of hundreds or thousands of innocent people!?.......us for judging him best way is in courts and in public, with life for guilty verdic
oleg November 19, 2007, 23:58: Fred,no I'm not kidding.
despecto November 19, 2007, 23:20: First, we have to define who is a terrorist. Is it a man fighting for freedom of his country, or is it a man with a bomb on his belt? All we know is that those people kill other innocent people, but to truly understand this phenomenon, we have to look dipper and find the cause. I am not trying to justify their actions; I am trying to define terrorism. Nova days terrorism is a LABEL and well promoted one. Some countries wish to stick such a label on anyone opposing it's regime. Capturing and torturing the most effective members of such opposition and releasing those who less dangerous or fight on other fronts. But sometimes system fails and innocent people got captured, should they be tortured as well?

In USSR was a network of camps called Gulag, eliminating opposition, today known as the most evil thing in Soviet Union. So maybe we should look more closely to what is really going on and not cover up new Gulag with “global fight against terrorism”.
DaniYah November 19, 2007, 23:09: The war against terror IS the war against secret torture prisons. Various professional standpoints support this, even in the US secret services. CIA officials have openly admitted that as much as 80% of classified information obtained through illegal means is available to the public (WP, Blackwater Spies for Hire). This translates to the fact that the "secrets" behind militant operations are not as elusive as the media portray them to be. The restoration of civility in lands where the influence of outside entities has been reduced or eliminated proves this.

The origin of the word assassin is from the word "hashishins", meaning those drugged with hashish. Many Chechen militants, including women, have testified to being drugged and hypnotized sent on terror missions. This is also widespread in Iraq, where doctors continually confim a number of "suicide" bombers turning themselves in with the same testimony and blood tests to back them up. The wave of terror rides on the back of the drug trade, which is boosted after US army arrives in a said region (Afghanistan, Columbia). US secret prisons use these drugs, supposedly as "truth serums." (Scientists have discarded the notion that a drug can incite one to tell the truth, but the drugs' use as a mind control agent is very well documented.) The secret prisons inject their subjects with interrogation drugs and send them on terror missions worldwide.

While US secret prisons, violating national sovereignty, is a sacrilege, the world cannot convince the leaders of today's only superpower that they ought to retreat from the territories and from among the peoples they have abused and DO NOT OWN.

But those leaders will succumb. They have succumbed because their lies don't survive without sympathy from the public. They must tell us that sacrileges are required to preserve the sanctity of our dignity- values of equality, peace and justice for all. They also say that enemies of those values are so elusive that only sacrileges can purge their existence. But if the causes are so noble, why follow the example of the enemy and hide?

The USA has the world's greatest largest prison population. If the US can claim THAT is JUSTICE, then it only helps to support evidence that the US has the most criminalistic society model on Earth. The purpose of prison is to prevent lawbreakers from returning to crime and to isolate the mind in the hope that perhaps it will learn to hate crime. But our reality today is the WORLD'S GREATEST LAWBREAKERS GO FREE and innocent people are maimed beyond recognition! We can't close our eyes or our hearts to this matter, least we find ourselves in one of those infernal places. How dare the world's worst tyrants claim to defend security!
sam November 19, 2007, 22:46: Would like to tell you all a joke,stop me if you heard it before.
MI6,KGB and CIA are doing a contest to see who is better.
Objective is to release a rabbit in the forest and see who can catch it faster.
Rabbit is released,MI6 goes into the forest and 5 mins later they are out with the rabbit.
KGB goes in and 5 mins later they are also out with the rabbit.
Now its the turn of CIA.They go in, 5mins no return, one hour still not out.After 2 hours KGB and MI6 went into the forest looking for them.
In the middle of the forest they find a CAT strapped to a pole being whipped by the CIA agents. The Cat shout "okey I said I was a Rabbit didn't I"
This is what CIA ends up with in real life.Slow usless information from anyone at all.
fred November 19, 2007, 22:28: oleg ??

did you take your medecine ?? ;-))

or are you just kidding ??

no way it can be OK , bloodshed leads to more bloodsheds , violence is only leading to more violence ...

look at the france and german , we fought each others for a few centuries ... each times it was more and more cruel ... a game were the winner was the one to use the "best cruelty" ....

it led us no where !
oleg November 19, 2007, 21:55: I think its fine.Do these scum bags care about the people they kill and torture? Why should the U.S. have to apply the Geneva conventions to a non-governmental terrorist group? We will do what ever it takes to break their backs,even if it means giving up some freedom and privacy!USA#1
Norman November 19, 2007, 20:38: Torture only gives the terrorists more ammunition and publicity for their cause. It reduces the torturer's credibility. On the other hand, prison sentences for terrorists should be harsh, while respecting the criminal's basic human rights. Personally, I would prefer that Guantanamo Bay be closed down.
fred November 19, 2007, 15:05: JUST nothing justify torture ...!

apart from the fact you can have any kind of confessions under torture (oftenly completely false )

by using torture to obtain informations you lower yourself to the ones you fight ...

if they are animals , you then become even more worthless animal !

that your name is G.W.B. , rumsfeld , hitler or staline , it doesn't change things a iota ...

you are lost for humanity !
Tortured November 19, 2007, 11:07: Some will use any arguments to justify terror of their own – countering Terrorism, extremism, threats, evil axis, nationalism etc, Forgetting that their victims’ have families, children, hopes and dreams too...

If there is justice, good and god, all these perpetrators of TORTURE ought to drown in their own bile and Blood!!