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Free Thinker       August 28, 2008, 04:50

Re: Reply to Peter's Recent Blog

You are overlooking one very fundamental variable in your "recognition" thesis. Fine, you want to bring in human rights then that is OK, but be consistent about it. Neither you nor anyone in the Russian leadership has been able to explain this problem of consistency, not convincingly anyway.

Based on your argument, Russia has lost the right to rule over many parts of its own territory, for both historic "Soviet" reasons as well as the fact that Russia out-did Georgia by far in terms of human rights violations carried out in places such as Chechnya. Then what about the abuses carried out by Abkhaz and Ossetian forces in Georgian inhabited parts of these breakaway regions, places that they now control.

I commend your observation that this chain of events is more than just tit-for-tat and it should not be viewed as such. In fact it represents an act of immense hypocrisy and it represents Russia's betrayal of the Serbian people. Russia gained a lot of legitimacy and respect because of its stance on Kosovo. Putin lamented very loudly about international law "developed over centuries" being torn apart. Clearly Russia did not agree with this and it showcased its disapproval by not recognising the new Kosovar state and it spoke very loudly and prominently about international law being upheld.

Now, Russia has gone and done the same thing and Medvedev has also used the same “special case” nonsense that the west tried to push with Kosovo. But you see Peter, this is all a contradiction on Russia’s part, it has said to the west that it does not agree with the precedent set by Kosovo and it will not endorse such a move and then we hear senior members of the Russian leadership and Duma talking about the Kosovo precedent, you can’t have it both ways mate.

Serbia has not recognised the independence of these Georgian breakaway regions and it fully maintained that it “respects international law”. So for all the “Slavic brother” statements dished out by Russia to the Serbian people, you guys have now gone and betrayed them by doing exactly what the west did and you have effectively undermined Serbia’s “law-based” argument. So much for solidarity

In this, Russia’s self-interest based approach to all problems has been exposed and the poor Serbs have once again simply been used as pawns, Russia does not care for them and they were simply a convenient tool for the purposes of anti-western grandstanding. So Russia has also vindicated the west’s actions in Kosovo because they also got involved for “human rights” reasons and what the Serbs did was certainly a whole lot worse than what Georgia is accused of doing. According to you then, Kosovo has every right to exist.

If truth be told, the only nations that hold any credibility as far as this whole debacle is concerned, are Greece, Serbia, Romania, Spain, Cyprus and all those who have been consistent in their application of existing and correct principles. These are some of the same characters whom you have seen fit to condemn in your post. The west was probably wrong on Kosovo, but Russia has now lost the moral high-ground on this issue and it cannot project itself as Serbia’s “protector” any longer.

David       August 25, 2008, 01:47

Sevodnya_Net:
With the amount of effort you have put into displaying your hostility and hatred towards Russia I am somewhat surprised you, and others supporting the same plynth as you, are not generating this same amount of energy in trying to denounce America's occupation in Cuba, Poland, and other ex-Soviet States, Iraq, Afghanistan, Israel and England's occupation in Northern Ireland, Falklands, Iraq, Afghanistan and the slaughter of the innocents and unarmed Peackeepers by the Georgians.

Mogyothwar       August 21, 2008, 13:42

Russia today is Russia today. Russia may have been changed from Communism to whatever ism it is . Russia may be changing, gradually, but others don’t change.
They have the same ambition, ideas and tricks as they had overt decades ago. History has shown that especially France, British, Germany tried to invade Russia time and time again. Today the same countries are led by United States of America . They have not give up their intension, their ideas and tricks to get Russia, at least to take Russia under their control and their influence. The break up of U.S.S.R . was not accidental

Russia had been invaded militarily. economically and politically time and time again..

It sounded like somebody wants Russian fleet to vacate Ukraine for US navy to move in. Look what happened after U.S.S.R had vacated Afghanistan, among many things Iraq was brought down to ashes. When Iraq was invaded , Russia and China kept quiet, they did nothing. Now it may be their turn to be invaded again. They should be worry or be concerned.

United States never fought a battle on its own soil.

It depends on you and you alone. If you allow the devil, the devil will surely take your soul. You know that., don’t you. If US close down all its military bases from all over the world. Russia might move its fleet from Ukraine. If Ukraine dares, all it has to do is touch one Russian warships.

Every nation will prosper, every people will prosper, if they are treated with respect and
Leave them alone. We all, have come ice age, through all the ages to nuclear age. Some are too advance, some are too behind. There are many reasons for that.

Don’t depend on God. He is not fair he is not just either.

To move the Black Sea Fleet from Ukraine to somewhere else is not a very wise idea. You may be vacating the place for, US or Nato led by US, at a time United States of America is reaching out trying to grab any nation , looking for nations to have its military present for one reason or the other, nearer to Russia or nearer to China. Lat us not forget Cuba where US has a Military is based . When you look at ASEAN nations , you will find US influence as well.

When Russia went into South Ossetia to protect Russian citizens from genocide from Mickail Saakashvile, George W Bush was not happy and he said Georgia was a, “sovereign nation, bullying tactics by Russian ”, I could not believe what I had heard.

Does George W Bush know what a “ sovereign nation “ is? Did he not know Iraq was also a sovereign nation? So was Vietnam, so was Laos, so was Cambodia. All nations in the United Nations are sovereign nations. But George Bush or United States did not care, do they? Do as I say, don’t do as I do is out of date.

How much will Russia take. How much will China take? How much the orld has to take? Are the Russians and Chinese happy to see others but themselves are being bullies by the bullies? Are the Russians and the Chinese glad to have their economic booms? Are the Russian and the Chinese are saying “ I am alright, Jack ”.

I am not calling for any war nor encouraging it. War is not desirable, but it is necessary sometimes , it had to be done thoroughly and with disciplines . There is no such thing as to give other cheek. The aggressors are aggressors , the victims are the victims, no reasons nor excuses are needed. “You better do it to them before they do it to you” is the saying.

Expansionists are expansionists. They will stop at nowhere. They will say anything to justify their actions. I am glad to see Russia and China in UNSC at least. They have to see UN function properly. With them in United Nations, UN should be able to protect all mankind from bullies and wild animals. Because we have seen more than enough.
I could understand why Adolf Hitler of Germany or Mussolini of Italy or Japan stood up against the Empire. Who is the Hitler, who is the Mussolini which is the Japan now? When they say “ the leopard never change its spots” it must be true.

Russia has its own experience s, through out the century. Russia is not a baby, Russia is a grown up Russia is a matured nation . It should knows what to do.

Russia and China are being black mailed by the west, they can’t even be members of World Trade Organizations yet.

War of words are not necessary, words for peace and actions are needed. Most of all everybody should respect everybody‘s rights, and try to live in harmony.

All leaders know, when to make war and when to make peace.

MT.

Student       August 21, 2008, 01:58

Bloomberg ran an interview with America's former Ambassador to Russia, Jack Matlock, who was the translator for Kennedy - Kruschev Bay of Pigs, and a lot more.

It was on "Night Talk," Bloomberg's evening talk show.

He sounded just like Peter Lavelle - mentioning at great length issues Peter only dealt with for a moment, as that is all the time he has, with one exception.

Peter is a bit more forthright about the fact - the unquestioned strategic fact - that Russia no longer dance to the tune of other nations, and will not do so again.

Ambassador Matlock recognizes the world has change, and so has Russia.

Thanks to Peter Lavelle for placing all of these issues "In Context." Most insightful of you!

Snoepy       August 19, 2008, 16:04

I have a big problem with Russia's Neighbours, especially Ukraine
who is commanding and dictating to Russia when and how to use it's black sea fleet. What is really wrong with those former soviet Repulics. Why can't they realise that,been an enemy of a close Neighbour Russia who were like brothers and sisters to them can't take them anywhere.I am suggesting that russia relocates their fleet in it's own territory,because sooner or later this will surely takes place.The devil has taken control over her neighbours. In my eight years of staying in Russia a beautiful culture and great people.May God continue to prosper your nation and your people.( ya vas vcek lublu)

Sevodnya_Net       August 18, 2008, 00:03

Peter,
Your In Context today was, predictably, a monstrous travesty of the truth. A balanced pro-Russian perspective on the conflict would have been fascinating, but instead we were treated to 30 minutes of cheap propaganda which will play well to many of course, but which will actually damage Russia's reputation for fairness among those who actually know something about what is going on.
As time is limited and I suspect people's stamina for reading posts on this forum on the subject may be flagging, I will just pick you up on one point:
You claimed that Russia "doesn't favour military alliances" or words to that effect. Why are military alliances necessarily to be deplored? Could the reason for its aversion to them be that Russia prefers instead to dominate its neighbours by duplicitous means rather than by co-operating militarily with others as equal partners? In this respect it was actually interesting to hear Dmitry Babich of all people proclaim that NATO operates by concensus :-)
One final thought: you disagree that Mikheil Saakashvili is a "beacon of democracy" in the Caucasus. Well, we can look at the opposition:
Sergei Bagapsh, Edouard Kokoity, Murat Zyazikov, Teimuraz Mamsurov, Mukhu Aliyev and (my personal favourite) Ramzan Kadyrov - to name but a few. Most Kremlin-appointed stooges, if you will forgive me my own bit of crude propaganda :-)
Given that line-up it's very bad news for the Caucasus if Mr S is no better than them.

Again, in this respect, Dmitry Babich's analysis is far fairer and more accurate. Perhaps you should listen to himn more :-)

In one respect I agree with you: South Ossetians were ignored by the west. And the UN refused to get involved, to its shame. Instead they were abandoned to a lawless, puppet regime. The sooner the world community gets its act together and insists on a neutral peace-keeping force the better. But I find the voices - again on your program - claiming that Georgian and South Ossetian can no longer co-exist in harmony depressing and worrying.

RogerT       August 17, 2008, 05:16

Congratulations to the crew of "In Context" for your program today. I know how easy it is to see all the biased western media especially US media but there are a few exceptions that should be considered before drawing conclusions of total bias. If you check out the comments sections of these biased articles there are encouraging and significant numbers of well written responses. The Globe and Mail deserves mentioning with their article on Misha aka Mikhail Saakashvili that I'm sure viewers will really enjoy. You can read see and hear the article about "Misha" Saakashvili at http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20080816.wsaakashvili0816/BNStory/International/?pageRequested=all

MihalMihalich       August 10, 2008, 01:22

Dear Ladies & Gentlemen

South Osetia /Abkazia/ Peacekeepers
19 years ago Georgian leader Gamsahurdi told that “Georgia should be for Georgians” starting a strong nationalistic movement that was forcing none-Georgian Osetians and Abkazians out of their homes and they started to seek independence from Georgia, which made Georgian start shooting in S. Osetia and Abkazia during 1991-1993 in the end of the conflict TENS OF THOUSANDS Abkazians and Osetians dead conflict was stopped as Georgia asked for Russian peacekeepers. During past 15 years ONLY Russian peacekeepers died in conflict zone, 130 Russian solders gave their lives for peace.
Because Breakaway republics are not recognized by the world their passports are not valid for travel or employment so Russia gave those who qualify Russian Citizenship on basis of former USSR. At this point 70-90% of all people that live in Breakaway Republics are citizens of Russia. Week after Kosovo Albanians received “support” and recognition of independence by the United States. Abkazia and S. Osetia did same amount of paperwork with referendum and asked SAME countries that recognizes Kosovo to recognize then but were NOT. And if state borders are not recognized someone will come to challenge them.

Sakashvili
Since 2004 Georgia government was overthrown, new president Sakashvili promised to return the breakaway republics that were De Facto independent states for 10 years. New president of Georgia has ties with Washington and soon after he took the office he cut social government programs such as healthcare to increase his military budget by about 4000% to 907 million dollars. I don’t have time to list how many times he lied in public, but since he is working by the book written in Pentagon during Kosovo. Kill civilians to make eveyone flea the country, destroy homes some those who stays don’t have homes to live in, occupy territory, give away that what was left to homeless or poor. And since he took Government control over all media he can feed Georgian ruports like only 10

NATO
Georgia was funded, equipped and armed by NATO countries! They supplied them 400 armored units and tanks 150 artillery units, helicopters. United States trained over 5000 Georgian troops and even though they may have thought that they would use training to help them in Iraq, Georgian used the training to kill Osetian civilians and Russian peacekeepers.
In the night when Georgian artillery, bombers and helicopters were leveling Capital of South Osetia, Peacekeepers Headquarters and observation outposts, shooting ambulances and hospitals, Georgian peacekeepers open fire on Russian peacekeepers, Tens of people reported dead. UN was agreeing to disagree, Georgian declares cease-fire and publicly stating it took control over city and restored constitutional order in the area, and ALL Western Media if it reported anything would say “there is Heavy fighting between South Osetia and Georgia.

Second day of war. Georgia declares cease-fire as Georgian bombers were bombing on refugee camps outside zone of conflict and refugee transports trying to escape the war zone, when Georgian army moved into the city and was shooting civilians inside the city, reports came that Georgian army is killing wounded civilians and peacekeepers. Russia ordered a few divisions to reinforce the peacekeepers and sent bombers to support troops from the air and to disable military airfield. Hundred of people reported dead. UN was calling for cease-fire, Georgia called for state of emergency and full mobilization, declaring that Georgia is in state of war with Russian Federation asking United States for “help”, ALL Western Media reported only that Russian tanks invaded Georgia, showing footage if Georgian MLRS fire saying its Russian MRLS fire.

Third day, over 1400 people reported dead most of them are Russians, UN wants Russia to cease-fire, Georgia declares cease-fire for 3rd time at same time Georgian army tries to moving in the city with tanks as keeps shelling what is left of the Capital of South Osetia, shooting Russian peacekeepers and Russian military forces that came to aid them. Russian Federation enforces aerial and naval control and suppresses Georgian artillery. ALL Western media report is Russia bombing Georgian city.

As I am watching video of a Georgian soldier shooting a lonely man walking on a street in capital of South Osetia, I got sick in my stomach and I had to write this post to RT, because Western media seems to prefer Russian tanks and Peacekeepers to be more interesting to report then Georgia wiping city off face of the earth with people inside without warning and over night.

Georgia wants the S. Osetia back as you see no diplomacy, and they choose to kill everyone they were preparing for strike for 5 years, Georgia wants to cleanse S. Oseatia from stubborn minority because they think “Georgia must be only for Georgians”. It is ethnic cleansing. And I think we are one day away from Russian bombers to take aggressors nazi army to the grave.

Best Regards.

Sam       August 8, 2008, 03:59

Regular_John, Yes the papers are from 2006. The fact is that the UK was looking for a means to overturn its own laws and prevent a take over bid by Gazprom.
Now if they did not make an effort, then that would have been another thing, but they did. Blair saying that he would not block it, did not mean that the ministers did not look for a way to do so. Which they did.

As for Mugabe, Insulting to whom? The Lancaster House agreement of 1979 gave Mugabe what he wanted. Independence and funding.

It also gave Britain what it wanted, that the white owned farms will not be seized, The landless blacks will be relocated paid by the British taxpayer and these whites that do want to leave will be compensated by the US and British governments. Also that the whites will always retain 20 seats in the government, that’s not very democratic is it?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lancaster_House_Agreement

They continued to finance him with the lands reform programmes until Blaire pulled the plug on it.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mugabe#Land_reform

Are you trying to tell us that all the time the UK did not notice his oppressive regime?

Regular_John       August 4, 2008, 18:59

Sam I think its quiet insulting to call Mugabe a British puppet in fact in 1980 the person both Britain and the Smith regime was backing to win the Zimbabwean election was the moderate Joshua Un-Como now he really would have made a very fine puppet

Mugabe was not expected to win, when Smith realised the election was going in Mugabe’s favour he tried to call the Army out but they refused.

For many years he was a good independently minded African leader but like all politicians his time was up the country wanted to make a change so to cling onto power Mugabe made tragic mistakes that have led to the catastrophe we see today.

Regular_John       August 4, 2008, 17:06

Sam you are drawing your information from newspaper speculation’s made on April 18 2006. On April 26 2006 the then prime minister Mr. Blair clarified the Governments position on Gazprom taking over Centrica and he stated that the British Government would not block any bid. This is a quote from the Guardian From that date. It was then up to both companies to agree a deal without state interference.

o guardian.co.uk, Wednesday April 26 2006
o Staff and agencies
The British utility firm Centrica today saw its share price jump amid renewed speculation about a takeover bid from Gazprom. Centrica shares were up 2.8% at 310.75p in afternoon trading, having previously increased by as much as 5%. The surge followed a report in the Financial Times that said Tony Blair would not block a future Gazprom bid for the UK company.

Sam       August 2, 2008, 15:48

The double standard of the west are really interesting.
Gazprom is thinking of buy Centrica which owns British Gas.The British government fearing security,is already trying to undermine the deal.
Maybe Britian should also be kicked out of the G8 for not letting its resources be shared with another G8 member.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/low/business/4945366.stm

http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2006/apr/18/politics.labourparty

Regular_John       July 31, 2008, 17:06

Russia’s third largest oil company TNK/BP is 50% owned by Russian billionaires 50% British petroleum over the last year this company has been under constant attack by the Russian authorities this includes the Tax office, police raids, immigration the list goes on and on. BP has now had to withdraw all its 150 Western specialist because of visa issues. And deploy them in other countries that welcome there expertise.

Now the joke is the TNK part of the company is saying they desperately need Western specialists sounds to me like the “lunatics have taken over the asylum”

Finally we learn that the state run monopoly gazprom is waiting like a white elephant as an analyst put it ready to come in with an offer to buy the company only a fool would believe all these events are unrelated.

The Russian state seems unwilling to share its natural resources with any outside companies the problem they have is that they need the western oil giants technology and expertise to exploit difficult to reach oil reserves a real “catch 22” for the Russian state. The people they need all work within the industry for companies like BP. You won’t find these people through your local job centre.

When state owned Gazprom finally forces BP out and gets their hands on TNK/BP (which they will).No doubt the filthy rich TNK billionaires will run off to western Europe and buy a football team or two This will also be more evidence that Russia is an unreliable business partner for western companies and gives credibility to Mr McCain’s intention to remove Russia from the G8 if he becomes President.

Sam       July 30, 2008, 11:14

Regular_John,Do you expect Russia to dictate to China on what it wants to do?
We should not model other countries relationships between themselves on the relationships between the USA and her "allies".
I do believe that there are no sanctions on Zimbabwe yet.They can still buy internationally what they please as long as the seller wants to sell.
Yes I agree South Africa failed the Zimbabwan people by not acting sooner like in 1980.Then again,for a different reason they were not in any position to do so then.Do you remember how shamefully Thatcher was licking up to Botha about the same time (keep remembering the spliting images series on BBC with her kissing his picture lol)

I do remember that Nigeria was the main voice for africa at that time,and openly criticised both the Apartheid in South Africa and the continued involvment of the UK in Zimbabwan affairs.It got them nowhere and even darmage their own economy by deporting all companies still dealing with South Africa eg Barclays bank and several oil companies.
Maybe the UK also failed the Zimbabwan people by financing and supporting their puppet in Zimbabwe until he ran loose.

Regular_John       July 28, 2008, 14:36

Sam The land seizers by Mugabe have been happening over several years so yes Russia has been listening to the recent request made over the last month and responding to that. But they have been quiet happy to allow their Security Council partner china to supply arms to Mugabe.

South Africa has done little or nothing over the last few years in regards to Mugabe’s mistreatment of his own people it’s only through years of sustained presser from the international community that now after all this time South Africa is finally pressurising the Mugabe regime

Only recently the South African government seemed to have no problem allowing the shipment of tons of Chinese weapons through there ports which were ordered by Mugabe, South African trade unionist blocked it.

I feel the South African government who are the key player in the region have failed the Zimbabwean people by not acting years sooner.