Three points: (1) Russia should cover its own energy needs. (2) Then sell any remaining gas to other countries at market or international rates. (3) Russia should have reliable gas lines through stable nations. Belarus and the Ukraine are not reliable business partners, though the Ukraine has its good side too.
An excerpt from http://www.oilandgaseurasia.com/articles/p/66/article/528/ - [The rapid growth of the Russian gas monopoly, which in December boasted a $300 billion capitalization, has propelled Gazprom to the top tier of anybody’s list of the world’s wealthiest companies. It is now nipping at the heels of such transnational giants as Microsoft, ExxonMobil and General Electric. And it is not out of the question that Gazprom might actually overtake some of its rivals. How so? Like any other company, Russia’s state-owned gas monopoly is pragmatically seeking out all opportunities to maximize its profits in a competitive market. It is no longer in the mood to satisfy the demands of ex-Soviet partner states for subsidized gas supply.
“Today and in the nearest future Europe remains our main export market, just as it was in the past,” another Medvedev in Gazprom’s leadership told an elite audience at last autumn’s “Russian Gas 2007” forum held annually at Gazprom headquarters in southern Moscow. Expanding on his point, Alexander Medvedev, Deputy Chairman of Gazprom’s Management Committee and no relation to likely presidential successor Dmitry Medvedev, continued: “Today, Europe is the center of our economic interests. Our interests are interdependent since Europe cannot do without Russian gas, just as Russia cannot do without European customers.” Last year, Gazprom celebrated 40 years of supplying gas to the Czech Republic and Slovakia, and next year the company will celebrate the same anniversary marking the start of gas supplies to Western Europe.]
The proper question should have been - Is Europe and particularly the OLD EUROPE doing enough to secure its own Energy supplies, and the answer to that would have been "no".Its still in a 'COLD' time-warp, PLAYING POLITICAL GAMES!
As for the Forum's question, it's already ANSWERED.
RE: Regular_John “The West like it or not is dependent on Russia for our gas needs“ ; “Russia claims they are owed 1.5 billion and have given the Ukraine only a few days to pay up or the gas will be shut off”
EU is prosperous with help of Russian energy supplies received nonstop over last 40 years. And when OPEC was reducing production Russia kept them pumping on maximum. As for Ukraine, they pay mostly with promises and not actual money and $1.5 billion did not appear out of nowhere it accumulated over the years, and it hit papers when it met deadline.
“The reason being, Ukraine has just been excepted as a member of the WTO Russia fears that her own accession may be hampered as the Ukraine may seek from Russia concessions of her own.” Current administration of Ukraine is PRO West meaning they want WTO, NATO, EU… that means WEST can block Ukraine admission into those organizations until they provide YOU energy transit security you seek … You can force Ukraine to do anything right now, why don’t you?
RE Sanjay “…to purge the Oligarchs who are controlling the energy resources as their private property.” Calling owners of large corporations oligarchs … interesting… so that means Bill Gates of Microsoft is oligarch too as well as Larry Page and Sergey Brin of Google… maybe you should purge them as well? Too keep Windows under 500$ and no search tracking policy… for good reasons. And accusing anyone of being a criminal is a crime itself unless you are a judge or prosecutor who have proof. It seems that you have only imaginary threat to Europe, because it does not come from gasprom management or from government or Ukraine or Belarus officially. Its amazing… communist USSR kept Europe secured for decades then Russian Federation another 17 years and now they feel so threatened and unsecured. Wow. You are so good, I totally believe you.
As for your comment “” Russian-Mongolia perhaps the entire siberia might become part of china in next 10-15 years “” It really makes me believe you have lost your mind or you never had one. In fact I think that everyone would be better off people who say such nonsense in public places. Too bad TR doesn’t block your absurdity probably because of freedom of the press thing.
To secure energy supplies to Europe, Russia will first have to purge the Oligarchs who are controlling the energy resources as their private property.
Property rights are very ill-defined in Russia. Large energy assests should not become the cash-flow units for a few dozen criminals.
Perhaps the first bare minimum step would be to bring all energy and metal assets under state control.
Then gradually through IPOs they should be disbursed smong the Russian middle and lower middle-class with State retaining the controlling stake through stock-market mechanisms.
This will ensure that the energy assets are not used as a tool to impoverish the russians and threaten europe.
Lukoil's case is a classic example of how private oil in Russia can wreck Russia-Europe relations. Lukoil's well publicised threats to germany by cutting the supply of oil to local german refineries is not in favor of long term EU-Russia relations.
Stock market mechanisms and a clear rule of law which ensures safety and security of russia's reosurces with clear involvement of Russian people will be more reassuring to Europe.
The 90s era fraudsters are still around and expanding. Mikhail Fridman, Leonid-Fedun, these are names which should send shiver down the russian spines. The kremlin-oligarchs along with other fraudsters might hand-over russian assets to anglo-americans while keeping russian citizens impoverished.
Recent statements by Anglo-american financier RObert-Rubin clearly point the needle towards cry for ceding control of russian energy assets in far-east to Exxon-Mobil and Chevron-BP combine.
If Russia wants to develop its energy industry, then why not collaborate with european Partners like the Norwegians, Dutch, Germans, Italians and perhaps the French.
Norwegians, Dutch and Germans have advanced technology and expertise in deep water exploration and extraction.
Israel and India too can provide some expertise and enormous markets.
By collaborating with eurasian partners, Russia can increase its influence in the region, promote security and reassure its anglo-american partners that eurasian community is perfectly capable of partnerships and common dreams.
Europe-Russia-India must unite to stabilize eurasia and ensure their own as well as others security.
International Terrorism, Totalitarian states in the Far-East and creeping anglo-americans pose a persistent threat to eurasian security and humanity.
The fourth and perhaps the most important element is the acute demographic crises in Europe-Russia.
EU-Russia can learn from India a thing or two about how population growth. Without this energy security will be foreever threatened.
Russian-Mongolia may slip away in time and perhaps the entire siberia might become part of china in next 10-15 years or be split among anglo-americans and chinese.
Europe's capitulation under Anglo-Chinese heel will be then final and Energy Starved India will remain chronically poor and underdeveloped.
Perhaps the first thing Medvedev might do after becoming president is to do another Yeltsin on Russia and hand over energy and metals to oligarch financiers.
The West like it or not is dependent on Russia for our gas needs. Some countries like Britain and France less so. It is worrying that gas is totally controlled by one giant monopoly called gazprom whose next president will not be a professional business man but again a high ranking politician.
The danger for us all is that gas could be used as a political tool. The disputes last year with Belarus and the Ukraine were for non payment of gas supplied. Now another dispute has flared up again with Ukraine.
This latest dispute I find a little troubling. Russia claims they are owed 1.5 billion and have given the Ukraine only a few days to pay up or the gas will be shut off. This threat to supply seems to be Russia’s first response and not its last resort. The supply of gas from Russia to Ukraine is complicated by the amount of middle men who seem to have their “snouts in the troth”. Given this fact alone it seems to me that a couple of days notice is not enough time to resolve this issue.
I also find the timing of this dispute a little dubious. The reason being, Ukraine has just been excepted as a member of the WTO Russia fears that her own accession may be hampered as the Ukraine may seek from Russia concessions of her own. So the question has to be asked is this a dispute over payment or a veiled warning to the Ukraine not to get in Russia’s way.
I believe the major problem is routing the gas through reliable partner nations, NOT CASH-SHORT COUNTRIES LIKE THE UKRAINE AND BELARUS. The Ukraine is too financially and politically unstable (though a nice nation overall). President Lukashenko, of Belarus, is a political and financial burden on Russia. His whole goal is to get cheap gas, and spread his stale government. I hope Russia never considers a union with Belarus until Lukashenko is out of office. Solution to the energy crisis: have alternate pipelines, and make countries like Belarus and Ukraine pay market prices. Gazprom is a corporation- not a social services agency!
Dont know about harryposter but I sure would love some Russian gas by now.When I am forced to pay British gas £215 just last week,I remembered that the heating bill on the continent is about half that as an average. As for Putins Trojan horse.well I wonder what what large scale investment had any western country or EU had made to boost the economy of Bulgaria? Has there been any that comes near to the financial deal offered by Russia? Am sure Bulgarians that remained home to try building their country would find this as a great deal.In UK,Bulgaria is better known as home for cheap estate investment.Thats selling your homes cheap to other.
"harryposter January 19, 2008, 05:12 We don't need Russia's gas here in the UK, we have enough of this for cheap in the North Sea. But I am ashamed about Bulgaria agreeing to be Putin's Trojan horse into EU, less than a year after joining the Euro they comply to their historic big brother. I am Bulgarian and not at all proud of it today Remember Vladimir, we don't need you"
Perhaps you haven't heard the news? The UK's North Sea gas is running out fast and the UK will be at least 80% dependent on imports from as early as 2020.
Don't be too ashamed of Bulgaria. The gas deal is just freemarket biznes and nothing personal. When it matters Bulgaria is always willing to war against fellow Orthodox countries so rest assured that it will most likely continue to live up to your high expectations of it.
"Sevodnya_Net - Without in this instance necessarily taking sides in the Russia/Ukraine gas dispute, my point was that, fairly or unfairly, the West by and large didn't blame Ukraine for the temporary diminution in supplies which occurred. Russia seemed to have failed to take into account that other customers might start to worry about Russia as a reliable supplier. It's a question of confidence, really. "
Russia understands the legitimate fears of its EU customers regarding the reliable supply of energy to them and are actively taking measures to diversify its supply routes to the EU to prevent exactly such unfortunate events from re-occurring.
The extra supply routes will allow a number of EU partner countries to share in Russia's natural wealth and will help lessen the blow of Ukrainian (or other transit country) theft of supplies or transit blackmail. Russia's extraordinary efforts to invest in securing Europe's energy supplies deserve high praise. It is therefore all the more curious that the collective EU and US leaderships are doing their utmost to derail Europe's energy security in this regard.
Fortunately a number of EU states recognise the sinister and irrational political nature of these policies and have instead agreed to partner with Russia on a bilateral basis to help secure Europe's energy future and to do a good bit of business for themselves at the same time.
Please be assured I am paid by no one to participate in this forum, and apart from my own good self, I don't think anyone even knows that I do participate.
I don't wish to trash or spam anything or anyone, and don't express any opinions other than my own. What I do try to do, though, is link my opinions to researchable and verifiable facts. It so happens that these do not always parallel the assumptions of some other participants here, but they are welcome to show any factual flaws in my reasoning if they wish. And I have genuine admiration for "RT" in the way it administers this forum.
I also want to repeat that I am not anti-Russian. But I am anti- some of the policies of Russia, just as I am also anti- some of the policies of various members of the Western nations, because these have led to, and in some cases continue to lead to suffering.
"RE Sevonya_net “…after Russia had turned off the gas to Ukraine,…” Ukraine didn’t sign contract on gas by dead line, no contract no gas… so Ukraine went ahead and start taking gas from Europe pipe as much as 1/3 of it. For Europe it was Robbery For Russia it was blackmail with hostages to force cheaper gas."
Without in this instance necessarily taking sides in the Russia/Ukraine gas dispute, my point was that, fairly or unfairly, the West by and large didn't blame Ukraine for the temporary diminution in supplies which occurred. Russia seemed to have failed to take into account that other customers might start to worry about Russia as a reliable supplier. It's a question of confidence, really.
As far as Britain is concerned tho many of the problems are largely our own fault, as we decimated our own solid fuel industry for the sake of North Sea oil and gas and cheap foreign imports years ago.
RE Sevonya_net “…after Russia had turned off the gas to Ukraine,…” Ukraine didn’t sign contract on gas by dead line, no contract no gas… so Ukraine went ahead and start taking gas from Europe pipe as much as 1/3 of it. For Europe it was Robbery For Russia it was blackmail with hostages to force cheaper gas. For Ukraine it was cheaper than Market gas price, Ukraine demanded free market pricing in business with Russia, they got what they asked for. Ukraine transits like half of all Russian gas they get paid handsomely for it, yet every year when books are checked some gas is stolen or vanishes on its way to Europe. You know every who has to buy natural resource sign contracts in beginning of the year while prices are cheap not in the end of year.
RE Gregory
I think that Sevodnya_net is a Georgian/Chechen/Ukrainian nationalist as he calls people that did Beslan, Budennovsk to be freedom fighters or rebels that fight for freedom from scary Russians that somehow take their freedoms away.
and Marzipan6 seems more of Estonian/Latvian/ material because he seems to like disputing results of WW2 and those crimes that Stalin committed all people in USSR the 18+ million starved to death and millions more killed for no reason are nothing comparing to what USSR did against him. (Stalin was from Georgia so Marzipan go ask them why they so proud of him).
Sorry for getting off topic, I am not like that but their bull$#@% grinds my gears. [Try sticking to the part that doesn't give you a headache, it will save us all from cutting offences out of posts - RT]
Why does Russia have to secure energy supplies for Europe, or for anyone for that matter? The free market Economic doctorine preached so piously by the USA and Europe says that resources will go where they generate the greatest return, so why shouldn't Russia be allowed to apply this to her energy resources? According to their own doctorine, Europe must pay the market price to secure the resources or loose them to another buyer (China, for example) who is prepared to.
N.B.
Europe doesn't much like having the doctorines it preaches to other countries applied to itself.
RE Marzipan6 “Europe increasingly dependent on Russian energy supplies, because then Russia would have maximum leverage” in 40 years that Russia supplies Europe with oil and gas, what leverage they got? Russia was paid by pure emission dollars… printer money. And those gas oil pipes IMHO seem more like after Warsaw pack leftover that insured Europe won’t freeze to death in winter. Germans went to Russia during WW2 looking for the resources. European GDP is almost equal to United States GDP because of the very resources. And so you know Electric and Energy are 2 major factor of economic growth in any country, there is no growth without them. That is what forcing Europe to fight for energy security & Russia is only a supplier. But I don’t think you can back up your words.
RE Sevodnya_Net After the pricing disputes with Ukraine and Belarus, which did tremendous harm to Russia's reputation as a reliable supplier of gas to the west, many now fear that Russia will not use its position as a key supplier of energy to the world wisely. I believe Russia has now backtracked on this unwise policy, but the damage may be irreparable.
Unless you going to tell me that Europe didn’t get 1 cubic foot of gas or 1 barrel of oil your statement is nothing but a LIE.
Frankly after I read your and Marzipan6 New year resolutions I think that you guys are paid to come in here and spam political opinions that might not be even your own, very often you shout opinions of yellow trash press and text out of context. It is really sad & annoying.
US ROBERT (US)
Ask Russians to build Thermonuclear Power plant in US. It is power of the small SUN. Europe is finishing building one. They started to build one in Russia because the can afford it now. Maybe they could you such high tech in U.S. when they run out of uranium, because there isn’t enough windmills to light up LasVegas.
Marzipan6 wrote: "Russia consistently tries to use trade as a political weapon with which to hit its partners over the head. This tends to have the effect of turning others against it."
Well that is a fair point but when you are effectively driving distance from Moscow you might as well buy stuff from them. I would just like to say Russia makes for a more civilised trading partner than another oil exporting company dominated by a corrupt, terrorist-funding, Royal family who use dubious BAE contract to get bribes and live a thoroughly unholy lifestyle when on holiday in London on "business" smoothly oiled (hohohoho) by the British consulate.
I am sure many people can recognise the country from this description.
France has been producing alcohol/water/petrol combination cars in Brazil for years now. Tractors can run on cooking oil in France. The farmers did this on their own initiative. When Continental Europe decides to implement an alternative she will do so. In the mean time I am sure the english (whoops sorry) the British can get a "ready-fix" solution from America.
fact 1: Russia did not invade Iraq thinking it would be a "business plan" with bullets and that Iraqi oil would bank roll whatever puppet govenrment would be installed by the UK and the USA in the aftermath.
fact 2: Europe can be grateful that the Russians are selling them anything. I would be sorely tempted to turn off the taps just to see what happened in the smug West.
fact 3: everyone who reads this message will probably live to see "peak oil crisis" and it's aftermath. You can bank on it.
fact 4: Marzipan6 is an embittered Chechen/Georgian/cosmopolitanist. Take your pick, nothing remotely friendly to Slav culture will ever be emitted from his/her keyboard
Further to Marzipan6's comments, during the first Ukrainian gas crisis, a day or so after Russia had turned off the gas to Ukraine, I had an interesting argument with a "Blue Coalition/Parti Rehioniv" supporter in Kyiv who was convinced that the west would blame Ukraine for disprupting its gas supplies and that it was for this reason that it was in Ukraine's interests to sort out its dispute with Russia asap (rather, say, than freezing to death!) I thought this was a very interesting point of view, bizarre tho I found it. I have no doubt that Russia was equally oblivious to, or had not considered, the implications of picking a fight with a country which at that time it relied on to transport much of its gas westwards. Since then Russia/GAZPROM (the two seem inseparable) appears to have gone out of its way to try to show that it is being even handed and politically neutral in the wielding of its economic advantage in this field. Hence presumably the much publicised "Pricing equation" revealed a few months ago. So maybe it does at last realise that playing too much politics with its energy resources may not be in its own interests after all. As I said before tho I remain unconvinced.
Russia has to continue doing what it doze now, finding alternitave routes for its oil ang gaz to it's customers, but it also needs pipe lines away from Europe and going to Asia so Russia won't be dependent on just one customer .
Whatever the motives are "Secure energy supplies to Europe" and " Europes Increasing dependance on Russian" mean the same thing. Cannt see how that would change.During the time of USSR,western europe was largly dependent on the USSR for its gas supplies despite the cold war.While the new EU countries like poland and Bulgaria were wholely dependent on Russia.More over now with increase in demand.Economics always comes before politics and always will.Logistically cheaper to buy from russia then ship it from elsewhere. the west seems to think other countries are novices in economics and had tried to make seperate deals with other producers who at the moment sell via Russian pipelines.Can tell you that they are not idiots and will continue to sell via Russia as that would keep the prices up.This is capitalism,Business is Business.
It is not in Russia’s apparent interests to “secure energy supplies to Europe,” but to make Europe increasingly dependent on Russian energy supplies, because then Russia would have maximum leverage in influencing European policies and development by manipulating its energy supply levers. Strangely enough, not all European leaders seem to understand this, and tend to deal with Russia as if it was just a normal player in an ordinary market.
But even being an energy manipulator is only in Russia's short-term, not long-term interest. Ultimately, Russia’s interests are best served by seeking a win-win outcome for itself and its customers alike, because a genuine symbiotic relationship ensures that each side has a genuine interest in the success and prosperity of the other. Strangely enough, this is something which Russia does not seem to understand, whether in respect to the oil market or in any other aspect of its trade. Russia consistently tries to use trade as a political weapon with which to hit its partners over the head. This tends to have the effect of turning others against it.
No country in the world is doing enough to secure energy supply. Nuclear energy is not much of an option because theres only enough uranium 238 to last only 20 years. So expensive dangerous nuclear power plant will lose money if they go that avenue. Cheap oil will be gone by my estamits by the year 2015 just cheap oil. There will still be expensive oil for farming .protection goverment entities. and police entities. Solar energy is a great option. One other avenue other people dont discuss much is the use of recycable trash such as paper and boxes and other burable containers to make electricity. Wind mill are also a good option.I believe in the Nike tennishoes sloagan ( just do it ) People just need to do things to save money on energy like convert there cars to propane and natural gas.Im going to convert my car to a duel system of gas and propane. gas when I need power and propane on freeway driving where momentum and not power is nessessary. I have to to stay in business.I dont plan on dying so I have to do some im sure most people are the same way.
11 February, 2008, 17:45
Three points: (1) Russia should cover its own energy needs. (2) Then sell any remaining gas to other countries at market or international rates. (3) Russia should have reliable gas lines through stable nations. Belarus and the Ukraine are not reliable business partners, though the Ukraine has its good side too.
11 February, 2008, 08:56
An excerpt from http://www.oilandgaseurasia.com/articles/p/66/article/528/ - [The rapid growth of the Russian gas monopoly, which in December boasted a $300 billion capitalization, has propelled Gazprom to the top tier of anybody’s list of the world’s wealthiest companies. It is now nipping at the heels of such transnational giants as Microsoft, ExxonMobil and General Electric. And it is not out of the question that Gazprom might actually overtake some of its rivals. How so? Like any other company, Russia’s state-owned gas monopoly is pragmatically seeking out all opportunities to maximize its profits in a competitive market. It is no longer in the mood to satisfy the demands of ex-Soviet partner states for subsidized gas supply.
“Today and in the nearest future Europe remains our main export market, just as it was in the past,” another Medvedev in Gazprom’s leadership told an elite audience at last autumn’s “Russian Gas 2007” forum held annually at Gazprom headquarters in southern Moscow. Expanding on his point, Alexander Medvedev, Deputy Chairman of Gazprom’s Management Committee and no relation to likely presidential successor Dmitry Medvedev, continued: “Today, Europe is the center of our economic interests. Our interests are interdependent since Europe cannot do without Russian gas, just as Russia cannot do without European customers.” Last year, Gazprom celebrated 40 years of supplying gas to the Czech Republic and Slovakia, and next year the company will celebrate the same anniversary marking the start of gas supplies to Western Europe.]
The proper question should have been - Is Europe and particularly the OLD EUROPE doing enough to secure its own Energy supplies, and the answer to that would have been "no".Its still in a 'COLD' time-warp, PLAYING POLITICAL GAMES!
As for the Forum's question, it's already ANSWERED.
11 February, 2008, 06:04
RE: Regular_John
“The West like it or not is dependent on Russia for our gas needs“ ; “Russia claims they are owed 1.5 billion and have given the Ukraine only a few days to pay up or the gas will be shut off”
EU is prosperous with help of Russian energy supplies received nonstop over last 40 years. And when OPEC was reducing production Russia kept them pumping on maximum. As for Ukraine, they pay mostly with promises and not actual money and $1.5 billion did not appear out of nowhere it accumulated over the years, and it hit papers when it met deadline.
“The reason being, Ukraine has just been excepted as a member of the WTO Russia fears that her own accession may be hampered as the Ukraine may seek from Russia concessions of her own.”
Current administration of Ukraine is PRO West meaning they want WTO, NATO, EU… that means WEST can block Ukraine admission into those organizations until they provide YOU energy transit security you seek … You can force Ukraine to do anything right now, why don’t you?
RE Sanjay
“…to purge the Oligarchs who are controlling the energy resources as their private property.”
Calling owners of large corporations oligarchs … interesting… so that means Bill Gates of Microsoft is oligarch too as well as Larry Page and Sergey Brin of Google… maybe you should purge them as well? Too keep Windows under 500$ and no search tracking policy… for good reasons.
And accusing anyone of being a criminal is a crime itself unless you are a judge or prosecutor who have proof.
It seems that you have only imaginary threat to Europe, because it does not come from gasprom management or from government or Ukraine or Belarus officially.
Its amazing… communist USSR kept Europe secured for decades then Russian Federation another 17 years and now they feel so threatened and unsecured. Wow. You are so good, I totally believe you.
As for your comment “” Russian-Mongolia perhaps the entire siberia might become part of china in next 10-15 years “”
It really makes me believe you have lost your mind or you never had one.
In fact I think that everyone would be better off people who say such nonsense in public places. Too bad TR doesn’t block your absurdity probably because of freedom of the press thing.
10 February, 2008, 16:23
Is Russia doing enough? The answer is a clear NO.
To secure energy supplies to Europe, Russia will first have to purge the Oligarchs who are controlling the energy resources as their private property.
Property rights are very ill-defined in Russia. Large energy assests should not become the cash-flow units for a few dozen criminals.
Perhaps the first bare minimum step would be to bring all energy and metal assets under state control.
Then gradually through IPOs they should be disbursed smong the Russian middle and lower middle-class with State retaining the controlling stake through stock-market mechanisms.
This will ensure that the energy assets are not used as a tool to impoverish the russians and threaten europe.
Lukoil's case is a classic example of how private oil in Russia can wreck Russia-Europe relations. Lukoil's well publicised threats to germany by cutting the supply of oil to local german refineries is not in favor of long term EU-Russia relations.
Stock market mechanisms and a clear rule of law which ensures safety and security of russia's reosurces with clear involvement of Russian people will be more reassuring to Europe.
The 90s era fraudsters are still around and expanding. Mikhail Fridman, Leonid-Fedun, these are names which should send shiver down the russian spines. The kremlin-oligarchs along with other fraudsters might hand-over russian assets to anglo-americans while keeping russian citizens impoverished.
Recent statements by Anglo-american financier RObert-Rubin clearly point the needle towards cry for ceding control of russian energy assets in far-east to Exxon-Mobil and Chevron-BP combine.
If Russia wants to develop its energy industry, then why not collaborate with european Partners like the Norwegians, Dutch, Germans, Italians and perhaps the French.
Norwegians, Dutch and Germans have advanced technology and expertise in deep water exploration and extraction.
Israel and India too can provide some expertise and enormous markets.
By collaborating with eurasian partners, Russia can increase its influence in the region, promote security and reassure its anglo-american partners that eurasian community is perfectly capable of partnerships and common dreams.
Europe-Russia-India must unite to stabilize eurasia and ensure their own as well as others security.
International Terrorism, Totalitarian states in the Far-East and creeping anglo-americans pose a persistent threat to eurasian security and humanity.
The fourth and perhaps the most important element is the acute demographic crises in Europe-Russia.
EU-Russia can learn from India a thing or two about how population growth. Without this energy security will be foreever threatened.
Russian-Mongolia may slip away in time and perhaps the entire siberia might become part of china in next 10-15 years or be split among anglo-americans and chinese.
Europe's capitulation under Anglo-Chinese heel will be then final and Energy Starved India will remain chronically poor and underdeveloped.
Perhaps the first thing Medvedev might do after becoming president is to do another Yeltsin on Russia and hand over energy and metals to oligarch financiers.
10 February, 2008, 13:00
The West like it or not is dependent on Russia for our gas needs. Some countries like Britain and France less so. It is worrying that gas is totally controlled by one giant monopoly called gazprom whose next president will not be a professional business man but again a high ranking politician.
The danger for us all is that gas could be used as a political tool. The disputes last year with Belarus and the Ukraine were for non payment of gas supplied. Now another dispute has flared up again with Ukraine.
This latest dispute I find a little troubling. Russia claims they are owed 1.5 billion and have given the Ukraine only a few days to pay up or the gas will be shut off. This threat to supply seems to be Russia’s first response and not its last resort. The supply of gas from Russia to Ukraine is complicated by the amount of middle men who seem to have their “snouts in the troth”. Given this fact alone it seems to me that a couple of days notice is not enough time to resolve this issue.
I also find the timing of this dispute a little dubious. The reason being, Ukraine has just been excepted as a member of the WTO Russia fears that her own accession may be hampered as the Ukraine may seek from Russia concessions of her own. So the question has to be asked is this a dispute over payment or a veiled warning to the Ukraine not to get in Russia’s way.
The jury is out.
08 February, 2008, 20:08
I believe the major problem is routing the gas through reliable partner nations, NOT CASH-SHORT COUNTRIES LIKE THE UKRAINE AND BELARUS. The Ukraine is too financially and politically unstable (though a nice nation overall). President Lukashenko, of Belarus, is a political and financial burden on Russia. His whole goal is to get cheap gas, and spread his stale government. I hope Russia never considers a union with Belarus until Lukashenko is out of office. Solution to the energy crisis: have alternate pipelines, and make countries like Belarus and Ukraine pay market prices. Gazprom is a corporation- not a social services agency!
30 January, 2008, 19:26
Dont know about harryposter but I sure would love some Russian gas by now.When I am forced to pay British gas £215 just last week,I remembered that the heating bill on the continent is about half that as an average.
As for Putins Trojan horse.well I wonder what what large scale investment had any western country or EU had made to boost the economy of Bulgaria? Has there been any that comes near to the financial deal offered by Russia? Am sure Bulgarians that remained home to try building their country would find this as a great deal.In UK,Bulgaria is better known as home for cheap estate investment.Thats selling your homes cheap to other.
30 January, 2008, 11:51
"harryposter January 19, 2008, 05:12
We don't need Russia's gas here in the UK, we have enough of this for cheap in the North Sea.
But I am ashamed about Bulgaria agreeing to be Putin's Trojan horse into EU, less than a year after joining the Euro they comply to their historic big brother. I am Bulgarian and not at all proud of it today
Remember Vladimir, we don't need you"
Perhaps you haven't heard the news? The UK's North Sea gas is running out fast and the UK will be at least 80% dependent on imports from as early as 2020.
Don't be too ashamed of Bulgaria. The gas deal is just freemarket biznes and nothing personal. When it matters Bulgaria is always willing to war against fellow Orthodox countries so rest assured that it will most likely continue to live up to your high expectations of it.
"Sevodnya_Net
- Without in this instance necessarily taking sides in the Russia/Ukraine gas dispute, my point was that, fairly or unfairly, the West by and large didn't blame Ukraine for the temporary diminution in supplies which occurred. Russia seemed to have failed to take into account that other customers might start to worry about Russia as a reliable supplier.
It's a question of confidence, really.
"
Russia understands the legitimate fears of its EU customers regarding the reliable supply of energy to them and are actively taking measures to diversify its supply routes to the EU to prevent exactly such unfortunate events from re-occurring.
The extra supply routes will allow a number of EU partner countries to share in Russia's natural wealth and will help lessen the blow of Ukrainian (or other transit country) theft of supplies or transit blackmail. Russia's extraordinary efforts to invest in securing Europe's energy supplies deserve high praise. It is therefore all the more curious that the collective EU and US leaderships are doing their utmost to derail Europe's energy security in this regard.
Fortunately a number of EU states recognise the sinister and irrational political nature of these policies and have instead agreed to partner with Russia on a bilateral basis to help secure Europe's energy future and to do a good bit of business for themselves at the same time.
21 January, 2008, 11:18
Dear MihalMihalich
Please be assured I am paid by no one to participate in this forum, and apart from my own good self, I don't think anyone even knows that I do participate.
I don't wish to trash or spam anything or anyone, and don't express any opinions other than my own. What I do try to do, though, is link my opinions to researchable and verifiable facts. It so happens that these do not always parallel the assumptions of some other participants here, but they are welcome to show any factual flaws in my reasoning if they wish. And I have genuine admiration for "RT" in the way it administers this forum.
I also want to repeat that I am not anti-Russian. But I am anti- some of the policies of Russia, just as I am also anti- some of the policies of various members of the Western nations, because these have led to, and in some cases continue to lead to suffering.
21 January, 2008, 09:40
"RE Sevonya_net
“…after Russia had turned off the gas to Ukraine,…”
Ukraine didn’t sign contract on gas by dead line, no contract no gas… so Ukraine went ahead and start taking gas from Europe pipe as much as 1/3 of it.
For Europe it was Robbery
For Russia it was blackmail with hostages to force cheaper gas."
Without in this instance necessarily taking sides in the Russia/Ukraine gas dispute, my point was that, fairly or unfairly, the West by and large didn't blame Ukraine for the temporary diminution in supplies which occurred. Russia seemed to have failed to take into account that other customers might start to worry about Russia as a reliable supplier.
It's a question of confidence, really.
As far as Britain is concerned tho many of the problems are largely our own fault, as we decimated our own solid fuel industry for the sake of North Sea oil and gas and cheap foreign imports years ago.
20 January, 2008, 18:46
RE Sevonya_net
“…after Russia had turned off the gas to Ukraine,…”
Ukraine didn’t sign contract on gas by dead line, no contract no gas… so Ukraine went ahead and start taking gas from Europe pipe as much as 1/3 of it.
For Europe it was Robbery
For Russia it was blackmail with hostages to force cheaper gas.
For Ukraine it was cheaper than Market gas price, Ukraine demanded free market pricing in business with Russia, they got what they asked for. Ukraine transits like half of all Russian gas they get paid handsomely for it, yet every year when books are checked some gas is stolen or vanishes on its way to Europe.
You know every who has to buy natural resource sign contracts in beginning of the year while prices are cheap not in the end of year.
RE Gregory
I think that Sevodnya_net is a Georgian/Chechen/Ukrainian nationalist as he calls people that did Beslan, Budennovsk to be freedom fighters or rebels that fight for freedom from scary Russians that somehow take their freedoms away.
and Marzipan6 seems more of Estonian/Latvian/ material because he seems to like disputing results of WW2 and those crimes that Stalin committed all people in USSR the 18+ million starved to death and millions more killed for no reason are nothing comparing to what USSR did against him. (Stalin was from Georgia so Marzipan go ask them why they so proud of him).
Sorry for getting off topic, I am not like that but their bull$#@% grinds my gears. [Try sticking to the part that doesn't give you a headache, it will save us all from cutting offences out of posts - RT]
Best Regards.
20 January, 2008, 10:49
Why does Russia have to secure energy supplies for Europe, or for anyone for that matter? The free market Economic doctorine preached so piously by the USA and Europe says that resources will go where they generate the greatest return, so why shouldn't Russia be allowed to apply this to her energy resources? According to their own doctorine, Europe must pay the market price to secure the resources or loose them to another buyer (China, for example) who is prepared to.
N.B.
Europe doesn't much like having the doctorines it preaches to other countries applied to itself.
19 January, 2008, 22:00
RE Marzipan6
“Europe increasingly dependent on Russian energy supplies, because then Russia would have maximum leverage”
in 40 years that Russia supplies Europe with oil and gas, what leverage they got? Russia was paid by pure emission dollars… printer money. And those gas oil pipes IMHO seem more like after Warsaw pack leftover that insured Europe won’t freeze to death in winter.
Germans went to Russia during WW2 looking for the resources. European GDP is almost equal to United States GDP because of the very resources. And so you know Electric and Energy are 2 major factor of economic growth in any country, there is no growth without them. That is what forcing Europe to fight for energy security & Russia is only a supplier.
But I don’t think you can back up your words.
RE Sevodnya_Net
After the pricing disputes with Ukraine and Belarus, which did tremendous harm to Russia's reputation as a reliable supplier of gas to the west, many now fear that Russia will not use its position as a key supplier of energy to the world wisely. I believe Russia has now backtracked on this unwise policy, but the damage may be irreparable.
Unless you going to tell me that Europe didn’t get 1 cubic foot of gas or 1 barrel of oil your statement is nothing but a LIE.
Frankly after I read your and Marzipan6 New year resolutions I think that you guys are paid to come in here and spam political opinions that might not be even your own, very often you shout opinions of yellow trash press and text out of context. It is really sad & annoying.
US ROBERT (US)
Ask Russians to build Thermonuclear Power plant in US. It is power of the small SUN.
Europe is finishing building one. They started to build one in Russia because the can afford it now. Maybe they could you such high tech in U.S. when they run out of uranium, because there isn’t enough windmills to light up LasVegas.
Best Regards
19 January, 2008, 21:14
Marzipan6 wrote: "Russia consistently tries to use trade as a political weapon with which to hit its partners over the head. This tends to have the effect of turning others against it."
Well that is a fair point but when you are effectively driving distance from Moscow you might as well buy stuff from them. I would just like to say Russia makes for a more civilised trading partner than another oil exporting company dominated by a corrupt, terrorist-funding, Royal family who use dubious BAE contract to get bribes and live a thoroughly unholy lifestyle when on holiday in London on "business" smoothly oiled (hohohoho) by the British consulate.
I am sure many people can recognise the country from this description.
France has been producing alcohol/water/petrol combination cars in Brazil for years now. Tractors can run on cooking oil in France. The farmers did this on their own initiative. When Continental Europe decides to implement an alternative she will do so. In the mean time I am sure the english (whoops sorry) the British can get a "ready-fix" solution from America.
19 January, 2008, 21:01
fact 1: Russia did not invade Iraq thinking it would be a "business plan" with bullets and that Iraqi oil would bank roll whatever puppet govenrment would be installed by the UK and the USA in the aftermath.
fact 2: Europe can be grateful that the Russians are selling them anything. I would be sorely tempted to turn off the taps just to see what happened in the smug West.
fact 3: everyone who reads this message will probably live to see "peak oil crisis" and it's aftermath. You can bank on it.
fact 4: Marzipan6 is an embittered Chechen/Georgian/cosmopolitanist. Take your pick, nothing remotely friendly to Slav culture will ever be emitted from his/her keyboard
19 January, 2008, 15:08
Further to Marzipan6's comments, during the first Ukrainian gas crisis, a day or so after Russia had turned off the gas to Ukraine, I had an interesting argument with a "Blue Coalition/Parti Rehioniv" supporter in Kyiv who was convinced that the west would blame Ukraine for disprupting its gas supplies and that it was for this reason that it was in Ukraine's interests to sort out its dispute with Russia asap (rather, say, than freezing to death!)
I thought this was a very interesting point of view, bizarre tho I found it. I have no doubt that Russia was equally oblivious to, or had not considered, the implications of picking a fight with a country which at that time it relied on to transport much of its gas westwards.
Since then Russia/GAZPROM (the two seem inseparable) appears to have gone out of its way to try to show that it is being even handed and politically neutral in the wielding of its economic advantage in this field. Hence presumably the much publicised "Pricing equation" revealed a few months ago.
So maybe it does at last realise that playing too much politics with its energy resources may not be in its own interests after all. As I said before tho I remain unconvinced.
19 January, 2008, 14:04
Russia has to continue doing what it doze now, finding alternitave routes for its oil ang gaz to it's customers, but it also needs pipe lines away from Europe and going to Asia so Russia won't be dependent on just one customer .
19 January, 2008, 13:51
Whatever the motives are "Secure energy supplies to Europe" and " Europes Increasing dependance on Russian" mean the same thing.
Cannt see how that would change.During the time of USSR,western europe was largly dependent on the USSR for its gas supplies despite the cold war.While the new EU countries like poland and Bulgaria were wholely dependent on Russia.More over now with increase in demand.Economics always comes before politics and always will.Logistically cheaper to buy from russia then ship it from elsewhere.
the west seems to think other countries are novices in economics and had tried to make seperate deals with other producers who at the moment sell via Russian pipelines.Can tell you that they are not idiots and will continue to sell via Russia as that would keep the prices up.This is capitalism,Business is Business.
19 January, 2008, 07:21
It is not in Russia’s apparent interests to “secure energy supplies to Europe,” but to make Europe increasingly dependent on Russian energy supplies, because then Russia would have maximum leverage in influencing European policies and development by manipulating its energy supply levers. Strangely enough, not all European leaders seem to understand this, and tend to deal with Russia as if it was just a normal player in an ordinary market.
But even being an energy manipulator is only in Russia's short-term, not long-term interest. Ultimately, Russia’s interests are best served by seeking a win-win outcome for itself and its customers alike, because a genuine symbiotic relationship ensures that each side has a genuine interest in the success and prosperity of the other. Strangely enough, this is something which Russia does not seem to understand, whether in respect to the oil market or in any other aspect of its trade. Russia consistently tries to use trade as a political weapon with which to hit its partners over the head. This tends to have the effect of turning others against it.
19 January, 2008, 04:17
No country in the world is doing enough to secure energy supply. Nuclear energy is not much of an option because theres only enough uranium 238 to last only 20 years. So expensive dangerous nuclear power plant will lose money if they go that avenue. Cheap oil will be gone by my estamits by the year 2015 just cheap oil. There will still be expensive oil for farming .protection goverment entities. and police entities. Solar energy is a great option. One other avenue other people dont discuss much is the use of recycable trash such as paper and boxes and other burable containers to make electricity. Wind mill are also a good option.I believe in the Nike tennishoes sloagan ( just do it ) People just need to do things to save money on energy like convert there cars to propane and natural gas.Im going to convert my car to a duel system of gas and propane. gas when I need power and propane on freeway driving where momentum and not power is nessessary. I have to to stay in business.I dont plan on dying so I have to do some im sure most people are the same way.
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