Old habits always die hard. During her first visit to Moscow in office, US Secretary of State Hillary Clinton could not resist lecturing Russian politicians, not to mention students, on the kind of society they should live in.
The reversion to old habits was not confined to civil society issues - it also included how the Russia-US relationship should move forward. What we saw was Washington's "new" foreign policy: ‘Pax Americana' with President Barack Obama's human face, plus an unearned Nobel Peace Prize, no less.
I was supremely disappointed with Clinton's visit. Her news conference with Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov was a disaster.
Clinton gushed, while Lavrov stayed with the facts. Clinton wanted us to believe that problems in the bilateral relationship could be fixed by motivational speaking.
Lavrov revealed the true state of affairs during the ensuing Q&A session, pointing out that little has been accomplished in "hitting the reset button".
Western media and much of Washington's chattering classes were awash with the notion that the Clinton visit would finally get the Russians on board against Iran's alleged nuclear weapons program.
President Dmitry Medvedev's earlier comment that sanctions against Iran, under certain circumstances, were inevitable was interpreted that Moscow had folded. Not surprisingly, Lavrov reiterated Russia's position that sanctions rarely work and that diplomacy with Tehran was far from exhausted.
Then the issue of new US plans for anti-missile defense arose.
Russia has reacted positively to Obama's announcement that he would scrap the Bush-era plans, but this week there was no sense that reciprocity was needed from Russia. And why should there be? Washington needlessly threatened Russia's security when it claimed the real aim of the anti-missile was a possible threat from Iran.
In fact, Moscow has no intention of rewarding Washington just yet, since the Pentagon has said it has ideas about new anti-missile defense.
Rhetorically, Russia has been told it could be invited to participate in the new plan. However, Lavrov made it clear there are no specifics on what that cooperation could mean.
Again, Clinton was getting ahead of herself - another bad habit of US foreign policy when trying to con a so-called friend. And believe me, the Russians aren't amused.
Desperate to show relations have really been reset, Clinton made reference to Russia's help for NATO over Afghanistan. Russia did the right thing long before the motivational speaking of the Obama administration - it agreed to an enhanced air corridor over Russian territory to supply US-led forces in Afghanistan. This kind of support is critical to avoid a complete and humiliating defeat at the hands of the Taliban, al-Qaeda and drug lords.
Russia's help for NATO didn't get it a Nobel Peace Prize, but it does demonstrate that Moscow is acutely aware of the fragility of the current international system and how to deal with the already-failed state of Afghanistan.
When it comes to another problem state, Georgia, Russia's political elite and people see President Mikhail Saakashvili as a thug due to his actions in starting the South Ossetia conflict in August 2008.
But Obama's administration sides with a country whose leader committed war crimes and refuses to accept the legitimate claims of South Ossetia and Abkhazia to be free and independent.
Clinton said that the US and Russia remain at odds over this issue, but now it is Washington's problem. Moscow's position on South Ossetia and Abkhazia is clear and will not change. Saakashvili is one of Washington's creations, so now it has to consider if he is worth spoiling relations with Moscow.
Addressing students at Moscow State University, Clinton did what many US politicians have done here before: share what they think are sacred truths about modernity - the whole civil and human rights 10-step program to make the rest of the world just like America. It all sounded quite hollow.
Few in Russia - even critics of the current government here - see America as practicing its own self-proclaimed values.
Clinton's motivational speaking didn't convert anyone in Moscow. The Russians, like the rest of the world, are still waiting for meaningful decisions and actions from the Obama administration.
The clock is ticking and patience is running out.
First published at the Moscow News
25 October, 2009, 23:15
Might I add:
Dear “Mycenaeans” of new times, considering the common enormous and extremely urgent problems we face today, don’t you think old ways should make way for new, and instead of trying to wipe us out you might consider working together trying to find solutions for these.
Time is running out and you’re waisting valuable resources pursuing the wrong goals.
25 October, 2009, 22:41
You would have to deaf and blind to believe Washington or the EU wants normal relations with Russia.
Under the Brezinski/Obama regime NATO bases are spring up on Russia's borders and preparing and being taught for war against Russia, numerous NATO exercises targeted towards Russia, moving NATO military capacity from Italy and Germany to Poland, Baltic’s and other countries bordering Russia, western sponsored terrorism has increased dramatically in Russia and Central Asian especially China with all the resources being put into destabilising Xinjing, China to create conflict between China and Russia, the constant demonisation and Communist revisionist campaign by the same people who controlled Communism in Russia financed by mayor industry like Anne Applebaum and the Olin foundation which is a political front of a family armaments company and promoting “good” Russians and non-Russian mostly British writers who defame Russian culture and national character.
“May 5, 2009 Russia Victor V. Erofeev who introduces himself as “a Russian writer” was awarded the Mondello Literary Prize for The Good Stalin (2004) recognized as the best “novel” of the year in Italy.”
The very language in which the “Encyclopaedia” is written reeks of illiterate and offensive graffiti left on walls by hooligans. A few citations below should illustrate the point to a sufficient extent.
For example, the fragment of the text titled Bloody Sunday reads:
“Russians should be clubbed.
Russians should be gunned down.
Russians should be made permanent parts of walls.
Otherwise they would not be Russians any more.
Bloody Sunday is a national holiday”1.
The fragment of the text titled Red Square – the place equally favored by Russians and foreign tourists visiting the country – says:
“Red Square works as a tryout for the stupid. If you like it, you must b a total nutcase2. If you don't – it also means you're a 100% nutcase. The space is enchanted. There are lots of dressed-up nutcases walking around Red Square (149).
Keep in mind that in May 1945, Red Square was the place where the dressed-up Russia rejoiced at the great triumph over Hitler's fascism!”
Here are a few of Mr. Erofeev's further ideas concerning Russia:
“Having toured the world to better understand Russia I realized it presents a serious threat to the world” (197).
“Russia is not among the cultures capable of self-determination. It is a historically dishonest country. It is based on lies” (122).
“The Russian culture is a five-star mortuary” (255).
«A Russian is a case of diminished responsibility. You will never know what he understood and what he failed to grasp. You should talk to ordinary Russians in maximally simplistic terms. This is not an illness, this is a historical condition” (72).
“The way to act with Russians is to put on the gas mask and attack. They hate being treated well. If you are nice to them, they decay like sausage in sunlight” (77)
«Everyone … thought Russians at least had the outer shells of normal people … This is only an illusion – they are beasts with four noses” (194).
«The normal condition of a Russian is being drunk. … When drunk, a Russian looks like himself” (195, 197)
“Russians are a shameful nation. A notebook of stereotypes. They can neither work nor think systematically” (46).
The sad reality is the fact I have to say being an ethnic Brit and living in Britain it is part of the public consensus historically and presently to be anti-Russian why else would they have supported the most extreme anti-Russian political movements like Bolshevism and the overthrow of the Czarist regime and subsequent support of Communism in Russia, Islamic separatists, “Russian” mafia and the exiled Oligarchs.
In a review of statements from famous people from the likes of General Patton, Revilo P Oliver, George Orwell, etc as most certainly not European and racial defamatory terms.
@Gene Hopkins
I would think carefully about getting the Flu shot if I were you the US government has a history of testing chemical and biological agents on US citizens.
I would do research on Swine Flu and the “vaccine” like what company produces it/there connections before getting it.
Could be part of a new bio weapon that US plans to deploy in cities in urban warfare Iraq, Iran, Russia, China? and the “vaccine” is a test to see if soldiers would be immune and what racial groups effected.
As far as Halloween goes in Russia I think they have a Russian Orthodox version of Halloween as Halloween is a Pagan holiday like they have Father Frost in January instead of Santa Claus.
25 October, 2009, 22:27
Ps. I forgot: Thank you Hillary. It’s been an eye-opener.
(It could all have been different.)
25 October, 2009, 21:57
Peter, all, and especially dear Russians,
Watching Hillary speak in Moscow, I had a moment of clarity: The Cold War is NOT (and never was) over!
In fact it’s hotter (or colder if you will) than ever.
Yes, this is a very old trick and shame on us in the East to have fallen for it: shows how very little we know of history and just how naive we are.
- Consider the Trojan war: The Mycenaeans, despite their best efforts, were at the end pretty helpless before the walls of Troy; So what did they do? They pretended the war was over and left a “present” even for the Trojans – the famous Trojan horse. The stupid Trojans fell for the trick, opened their walls, and brought the Trojan horse inside their fortress. You know the outcome.
- For those who have red the “Shogun” you’ll certainly recognise the same trick used by Toranaga to win the war against his rival Ishido – pretending the war (‘cold’ at the moment because not a single battle had been fought..) was over and then entraping his emeny, and finishing him off with a single grand battle.
- Remember the first Gulf war? Couple hundred thousand Iraqi military turned to charkal on the road back to Bagdad.. . How? Simple: US said war was over, they came out in the open and, probably happy that it was all over, started going back home.., then bang! – it wasn’t over.. .
See the parellels? I certainly do. The Cold War may be over for us in the East, but certainly isn’t for the UKUSA club.
Don’t believe it? Well, why not disband NATO then, but keep enlarging it.. pushing further and further East? Why insist on encircling Russia and getting into China’s backyard? Why the missile shield fiasco (and it isn’t over at all..)? Why panish Serbs for not signing to be the largest NATO base ever and still doing a smaller version of it in Kosovo? – and in the process sending a clear message that this is what awaits orthodox Slavs if they don’t ‘follow instructions.’ Why?.. I have only one answer that makes sense to me: they’re just getting in position for the decisive blow.., just like the Mycenaeans of old. Let’s see what the mighty Olympians will be doing this time arround.
Cinical? Scary? May be, but facts seem to point that way. And that’s a "snapshot" of the Balkans.
BR
Aleks
25 October, 2009, 17:16
You would have to deaf and blind to believe Washington or the EU wants normal relations with Russia.
Under the Brezinski/Obama regime NATO bases are spring up on Russia's borders and preparing and being taught for war against Russia, numerous NATO exercises targeted towards Russia, moving NATO military capacity from Italy and Germany to Poland, Baltic’s and other countries bordering Russia, western sponsored terrorism has increased dramatically in Russia and Central Asian especially China with all the resources being put into destabilising Xinjing, China to create conflict between China and Russia, the constant demonisation and Communist revisionist campaign by the same people who controlled Communism in Russia financed by mayor industry like Anne Applebaum and the Olin foundation which is a political front of a family armaments company and promoting “good” Russians and non-Russian mostly British writers who defame Russian culture and national character.
“May 5, 2009 Russia Victor V. Erofeev who introduces himself as “a Russian writer” was awarded the Mondello Literary Prize for The Good Stalin (2004) recognized as the best “novel” of the year in Italy.”
The very language in which the “Encyclopaedia” is written reeks of illiterate and offensive graffiti left on walls by hooligans. A few citations below should illustrate the point to a sufficient extent.
For example, the fragment of the text titled Bloody Sunday reads:
“Russians should be clubbed.
Russians should be gunned down.
Russians should be made permanent parts of walls.
Otherwise they would not be Russians any more.
Bloody Sunday is a national holiday”1.
The fragment of the text titled Red Square – the place equally favored by Russians and foreign tourists visiting the country – says:
“Red Square works as a tryout for the stupid. If you like it, you must b a total nutcase2. If you don't – it also means you're a 100% nutcase. The space is enchanted. There are lots of dressed-up nutcases walking around Red Square (149).
Keep in mind that in May 1945, Red Square was the place where the dressed-up Russia rejoiced at the great triumph over Hitler's fascism!”
Here are a few of Mr. Erofeev's further ideas concerning Russia:
“Having toured the world to better understand Russia I realized it presents a serious threat to the world” (197).
“Russia is not among the cultures capable of self-determination. It is a historically dishonest country. It is based on lies” (122).
“The Russian culture is a five-star mortuary” (255).
«A Russian is a case of diminished responsibility. You will never know what he understood and what he failed to grasp. You should talk to ordinary Russians in maximally simplistic terms. This is not an illness, this is a historical condition” (72).
“The way to act with Russians is to put on the gas mask and attack. They hate being treated well. If you are nice to them, they decay like sausage in sunlight” (77)
«Everyone … thought Russians at least had the outer shells of normal people … This is only an illusion – they are beasts with four noses” (194).
«The normal condition of a Russian is being drunk. … When drunk, a Russian looks like himself” (195, 197)
“Russians are a shameful nation. A notebook of stereotypes. They can neither work nor think systematically” (46).
http://en.fondsk.ru/article.php?id=2503
The sad reality is the fact I have to say being an ethnic Brit and living in Britain it is part of the public consensus historically and presently to be anti-Russian why else would they have supported the most extreme anti-Russian political movements like Bolshevism and the overthrow of the Czarist regime and subsequent support of Communism in Russia, Islamic separatists/terrorists, “Russian” mafia and the exiled Oligarchs.
In a review of statements from famous people from the likes of General Patton, Revilo P Oliver, George Orwell, etc as most certainly not European and racial defamatory terms.
@Gene Hopkins
I would think carefully about getting the Flu shot if I were you the US government has a history of testing chemical and biological agents on US citizens.
http://www.geocities.com/athens/oracle/4809/gov.html
I would do research on Swine Flu and the “vaccine” like what company produces it/there connections before getting it.
Could be part of a new bio weapon that US plans to deploy in cities in urban warfare Iraq, Iran, Russia, China? and the “vaccine” is a test to see if soldiers would be immune and what racial groups effected.
As far as Halloween goes in Russia I think they have a Russian Orthodox version of Halloween as Halloween is a Pagan holiday like they have Father Frost in January instead of Santa Claus.
25 October, 2009, 15:44
Gene,
Halloween is a little off topic. If you are in Russia on Halloween, and want full-on halloween, go to Silvers in Moscow, a short walk from Ohotniy Riyad.It is also a very good place to meet Russians and Foreigners who are in the :"Know" on current realities. A melting pot where everyone shakes their heads at western news on the flatscreen.
25 October, 2009, 03:43
Actually Hillary is an average blabber-box with a couple of holes in it. She was chosen for her ability to be a distracting fool. Do you you all remember Congo Lisa ?
24 October, 2009, 23:45
Peter,
The H1N1 virus (swine flu) is now a NATIONAL EMERGENCY in the United States. Over a thousand have died ant the death toll is rising. I hope Russia will be spared from this ongoing tragedy. I called my 86 year old mom yesterday (she lives in Pittsburgh) and pleaded with her to get a flu shot. She is very stubborn, like me, and thinks she will never get sick. I love my mom and I am not ready for her to die yet. She is very sharp and we argue all the time on the phone about politics. She voted for John McCain and I voted for Barack Obama. I will be getting a flu shot on October 29th.
Your friend and brother,
Gene Hopkins, San Francisco
24 October, 2009, 23:08
Peter,
After this life, I would like you to be in heaven with me. Jesus Christ is my Lord and Savior. He died for our sins. I have many. Jesus is the only bridge to heaven. A lifetime of good works will not do it. Jesus is the ONLY WAY.
Gene H., San Francisco
24 October, 2009, 22:45
Peter,
About the NFL football league, Cleveland Browns fans HATE Pittsburgh Steeler fans. They hate Pittsburgh because the Steelers have now beaten the Browns TWELVE TIMES IN A ROW. They call people from Pittsburgh "in-bred hillbill ies and Trolls". I know this because I am a regular visitor on the Cleveland Browns internet Forum. At least Pittsburgh's rivers never caught on fire like Cleveland's did. They have no idea that I am an "undercover Pittsburgh Steeler fan". It is a lot of fun.
Gene H., San Francisco
24 October, 2009, 22:16
Peter,
You are probably not an NFL fan. That is American football (not soccer). My first twenty years of life were in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania. Then I moved to San Francisco, California. (2500 miles away). I love the Pittsburgh Steelers first and the San Francisco 49ers second. My beloved Steelers are the current champions. These two teams have a combined Super Bowl record of eleven wins and one loss. (11-1). No other cities in the United States can compare with this record in the Super Bowl (the American football championship game). Just sayin'
Gene H., San Francisco
24 October, 2009, 21:13
Happy Halloween!!! We put pumpkins carved with scary faces in front of our houses. (to scare the children knocking on our doors and asking for candy?)At least 100 Million Americans do this on October 31st.
Gene from San Francisco
24 October, 2009, 20:49
Peter,
Does Russia have Halloween? It is the most fun American holiday always on October 31st. Children dress up in outlandish costumes and knock on all their neighbors doors and ask for candy. They say "Trick or Treat?" If the neighbors do not give the children candy, they will be subject to a "Trick" from the children. The "Trick" could be anything. American children look forward all year to this holiday. This is when they are in charge.
Gene H., San Francisco
24 October, 2009, 16:11
Mr Lavrov must be at the end of his tether with regards his tolerance for the "reset" games.
The Hilderbeast (as an ex BritEmb employee calls her) is part of an administration headed by a president who this time last year thought Vladimir Putin was the presient of The Russian Federation.He also believe,or states, that Russian aggression started the Georgia conflict. Once again an administration at odds with the world concensus and intenton pressing an agenda. Hilary can lecture all she wants, nothing new to Russian diplomats but time is fast running out for the emergence of real substance to back the words.The EU has clearly investigated the Georgia conflict with an outcome contrary to the administrations Prague '68 aggression media hype we were all fed. The public "reset" bravado clearly has no substance other than to keep a smokescreen on the pressing issue of securing oil supplies in Russia's back yard.
24 October, 2009, 15:24
Peter,
This beautiful blue spinning orb called Earth houses about 6.85 Billion people. We were all created by a "Higher Power" and all equal in His (or Her?) eyes. (In My Humble Opinion) No One in Russia or in the United States is superior to that poor woman in Darfur whose baby child died in her arms of starvation today. Peter, that baby child is every bit the equal of you or me. Why do we have so much food that we waste it, when that baby child died of starvation. How about you and I raise our voices to try to make peace in this world. Your President hears your voice and my President hears my voice.
Gene H. from San Francisco
24 October, 2009, 15:03
Hi Peter
Here is a "snapshot" of America. I will be 52 on November 6th. I have three brothers, all doing better than me.
This past July my mom, two sisters and I visited Chris and his parents (Maria and Jason) in North Carolina. They had just bought a home and were having a housewarming party. We stayed there for three days and had a great time. Maria is my sister Nancy's daughter. Maria is 29 years old and is a third grade school teacher. She has already had a double mastectomy. Like Christopher, Maria is in remission from cancer. They are happy and healthy. I don't want to get religious, but Jesus does answer prayers, even prayers from a gay freak like me. Cancer runs in my family. My dad died of esophageal cancer and my mother's brother, Uncle Woody died of a massive brain tumor. I still am very troubled almost 52 year old nut job (my birthday is Nov. 6th) but I am blessed to be part of my family. I like to say we are the "Waltons with a twist". I am blabbing now but put up with me for one more paragraph.
I have five sisters, four of which are my elders. Peggy, 62, has a master's degree in Social Work. Nancy 55, is a respiratory therapist. Theresa, my baby sister is 44. She is a financial analyst. Susie 56 and Georgia 53 are like me. They have serious psychological issues and like me have been psychiatric hospitals for various lengths of time. Susie and Georgia both still live with mom, that is why I do not have to worry about my mom's physical health (like falling down and being alone with no one there to help her get up). Even though Susie and Georgia are troubled like me and sometimes act erratically, mom is in good hands because they both love her dearly. Fortunately, none of the three of us seem to "go crazy" at the same time. Cold, but true.
24 October, 2009, 08:48
Marx,
Your Idea of autonomous units is good but it will not work because in any group of individuals there is a minority who want more than their share .To stop this minority the larger group had to organise and arm itself.The problem grows greater when for some individuals requirement of security takes
form of sport/hobby .
We all try to carve out dynasties/empires for our kids and grand kids it is in our psychology ,we love them too much.
On other hand children are wiser for them the gone generation are nothing more than a reference.
If we would love our kids less leave them to make their own choices and concentrate on our own problems of global warming ,nuclear weapons,pesticides in food,cancer , diabetes etc.
100 Years from now no one alive today will be alive ,it will be a new world with totally new set of people ,we should not leave history or precedent of competition or aggression for them.
Sierra
You have right to launch all missiles you want,keep in mind that people you hate or are cause of trouble to you will be well safe in bunkers ,only people you may harm may be kids
animals,some old crippled lady, people who have never done anything wrong to you .
24 October, 2009, 05:57
Phil Marx;
Now who is living in a matrix here?
When trying to get some information accross, the best way is to use the matrix frame of reference. The matrix is using the international law, policies, human rights concerns, and other constructs to explain the world we live in.
Is it worth it? Those living comfortably in the matrix, will probably read and forget. But those whose lives are being destroyed so that the matrix can go on feeding on the ruins of their existence, will not. And eventually, people stop believing, and a new order will emerge.
Will it repeat the same mistakes of the old? Who knows. I do know that the Managed Chaos does not stand a chance. Why? Because it is a mighty orderly chaos! To divide populace so neatly, with such an agreed upon death wish, may be beyond the cognitive makeup of earthlings.
But what might happen is the end of the drive to make the earth so homegenous, with same style grey barracks with the banner of Democracy flying over each. When the drive eventually stops, a new reality will emerge. For the first time in Earth's history, it may actually be global. Thus far, we have seen only a strong empire, or a collection of states pursuing global agenda within their own realm of alliances of the willing. What may be in store is the first ever attempt at codifying global relations.
Will it be by a broad consensus, or again imposed upon by the new and improved Matrix?
24 October, 2009, 03:50
Phil Marx, your comments inspire some thinking. And I like it...
In your nice "Organized Chaos" theory one element seems not yet developed enough -- the "supreme judge" or "punisher". It looks like a minor thing left in this beautiful theory, but the fact of the matter -- this element may ruin the harmony of the entire plan.
Another weakness in your theory -- you assume that humans are indistinguishable (say, like ants) and have no connections with each other, thus easily could be separated on groups of 10,000. I, though, have hard time to image how it is possible to divide 1,500,000,000 Chinese on such groups and then prevent them quickly to be reassembled together. Especially interesting question for me would be -- who can prevent that? 10,000 Aborigines from Australia or 10,000 Eskimos lost in the icy lands of Alaska? Another interesting case would be if, say, one group of 10,000 Chinese misbehave, and all other groups collectively, which will include, say, 10,000 Japanese, 10,000 Russian, 10,000 British, would start "punishing" them. I wonder what would remaining 1,500,000,000 - 10,000 Chinese would do in this case? Probably, nothing. :-)
Though, I like your "10K-based Alienated Republic of Androids". Because, it reminds me those communist ideas which constituted the basis of the Revolution in Russia in 1917. It looks like all of us are living in the Matrix... :-)
Remember, the beginning of the immortal work of Thomas Paine "Common Sense"? "Society is produced by our wants, and government by our wickedness". Societies are created using common sense. Based on the reality and necessity. So, if you artificially rearrange things, over time, everything will return to the point where your started. Imaging how frustrating it would be? :-)
24 October, 2009, 03:46
Bianca, how do you manage to maintain such incredible internal knowledge base? I cannot believe that one human head can keep all this information! And not just keep it, but also, to order it properly. By the way, you are right -- the excessive knowledge creates excessive headache. Or as they say -- The less you know, the better you sleep!
Just recently, on the Alexey Sazonov's blog I slammed at Arvind for his unwillingness to look at events little bit deeper and try to analyze them before providing "opinion" by just replicating the information digested by the media. The same here. People lump together or lineup completely different things (S.Ossetia, Kosovo, Chechnya, ...) without even slightest efforts to see the differences between every case. The same way how they equalize countries having the same banner or manifest themselves similarly on the surface (N.Korea, China, Cuba, Nicaragua, ...), but, underneath having different "contents". In some cases, may be even too much different.
"The way these comrades look at problems is wrong. They do not look at the essential or main aspects but emphasize the non-essential or minor ones. It should be pointed out that these non-essential or minor aspects must not be overlooked and must be dealt with one by one. But they should not be taken as the essential or main aspects, or we will lose our bearings." "In this world, things are complicated and are decided by many factors. We should look at problems from different aspects, not from just one." -- Somebody well-known said that.



22 November, 2009, 02:29
Marzipan, the Dalai Lama was willingly removed from Tibet by the CIA, and has been in their control ever since. The Dalai Lama left Tibet because the government freed the fuedal serfs. I know something about serfdom, because both my grandfathers, whom I knew well, were sharecroppers in Texas.
Furthermore, the Portala Palace was initially built by a Chinese princess, who married a Tibetan King; the Emperor of China designated the Dalai Lamas. There is a massive historical record linking Tibet and China.
Tibet has been part of China for over 1000 years.
Furthermore, practically speaking, the Dalai Lama seeks to subject his own people to war and suffering when he puts Tibet into a contest between the west and China, because there is no way China will ever allow anyone to steal Tibet from them except by force of arms; THAT is obejctively what you and the Dalai Lama wish for the Tibetan people, war.
It is too bad the Dalai Lama is not human enough to give up and go back to his homeland and live a quiet life for the sake of his people, who are enjoying an 11% increase in GDP and a narrowing gap between themselves and higher incomes in the rest of China, which is a very diverse place. Afterall, they do not want the British back enforcing the "power" of the Dalai Lama, because it was not the Dalai Lama who freed them from serfdom when he could have, it was the "Godless Communists" who did that, while the Dalai Lama ran away to be rich in the west.
Marzipan, you speak OPINIONS and EMOTIONS, but you do not speak facts, or if you assert them, they are most often incorrect.
22 November, 2009, 02:14
Marzipan6.
Not everybody who criticizes Russia and Communism (no matter how harsh they do this) falls in the category of neocons. At least, this is how I understand the meaning of this word and how I use it in my comments. For example, I would not consider you being member of this "club". I think, Bianca, very well described this notion. And I agree with that definition. Though, on this blog, I, normally, narrow it down. Firstly, I apply it primarily to American politicians with power or those who can influence those with power. Secondly, and most importantly, the criteria to be called "neocon" -- you have to exhibit paranoid desire for world domination, putting yourself above international laws, being hypocritical, arrogant, and ignorant, and pushing others by any means to follow your path. Shortly, being like a nasty kid (strong, aggressive, and uncontrolled) who has difficult childhood, mentally disturbed, and seeking for any opportunity to poke or humiliate other kids and show them who is the boss. Because, he can do it and nobody will punish him for that.... Surprisingly, America is full of such "spoiled child" politicians.
And, you are right -- neo-conservatism is not a party. It is lifestyle. The same as there are no parties of killers or rapers, there are no parties of terrorists or gangsters. But such people exist physically and others sometimes feel their presence. And what makes neocons being especially dangerous -- they are not exposing themselves very explicitly (this is why hypocrisy is one of their key features). They are hiding themselves behind the masks and trying to fool others. They are like daemons of darkness snooping around creating fears in minds of Americans (being attacked by others) and people around the globe (being attacked by Americans). Though, sometimes some of them surface and we know their names. Like, say, the biggest scumbag on this planet for the entire history of humanity -- John Bolton. Though, he is not the most famous and not the nastiest among neocons...
Regarding Tibet.... You said: "And Tibetans’ voice is fairly consistent on this subject. For a general sense of what that voice says, Google “Tibet Online.”". But, Marzipan6, the actual Tibetians (not those who represents them in the West) not even have access to Internet. I am not even sure that Tibetians in Tibet have electricity in their houses (if they have houses at all). So, they cannot be online. And that, I guess, was Bianca's point... By the way, accidentally, once I had chance to see the demonstration in support of Tibetians in San Francisco (during the visit one of the high-rank Chinese politicians). Looking at that crowd I had this feeling that entire show was phony and created specifically for TV cameras. So, my point, -- I don't trust those "fighters for human rights in Tibet" here in America. I believe many of them either don't know the real situation in Tibet or well paid to be "clowns" and "cheer leaders". Especially, these day, when California alone has almost 2.5 millions jobless people.
In fact, Marzipan6. The more references you bring, the more problems they, seem, create for you. I like you (even though you often give me hard time) and I don't want you to sink completely. So, I would prefer if you speak from your own experience. I trust it more...
jonhx.
You are asking: "...why is this issue of western terrorism and organised crime not taken seriously by Russians?". In fact, Russians take Western terrorism (of different kind) so seriously that, it may seem, that Russia is paranoid and obsessed with the West. Remember on the previous Peter's blog entry some guys (sevodnya_net, kierkegaard, G.Walters) complained that this site focuses too much on the West and not providing information about Russia. What they don't know, probably, that focusing on the West is a part of Russia. It was always a big part of life in the USSR and, at least, for the first ten years in the post-USSR Russia. I cannot say for sure about current time. But, I assume nothing changed dramatically. I think, Russia still spends a lot of time trying to overcome problems created by the West systematically. Actually, I will be more specific -- probelms created by neocons and their "trained dogs".
21 November, 2009, 23:47
@Marzipan6,
Absolutely wrong! The "neo-conservative' movement is a distinct wing of the American political thought. Anyone following US politics knows this. It doesn't have to be made up of "card-carrying" members. (Most conservatives in the US don't belong to the Conservative Party, for example.) Irving Kristol and his comrades, originally Trotskyites, became disillusioned with socialism and came full circle, but were (and are) different from traditional American conservatives and so-called "paleo-conservatives." Have you ever heard of Pat Buchanan? He is a very renowned and influential conservative political figure in the US who frequently criticizes the neo-cons. Buchanan was a senior advisor to American presidents Richard Nixon, Gerald Ford, and Ronald Reagan, and was an original host on CNN's Crossfire. He also has criticized the expansion of NATO, as had the late preeminent American diplomat concerning the USSR and Russia, George Kennan. Neo-cons like to claim "descendance" from Ronald Reagan, but this is patently false. Reagan was anti-Soviet, but never anti-Russia. He knew the difference between Russians as a people, and the Soviet Communist system, something which you refuse to acknowledge, therefore earning you the neo-con label. I rejoiced when the Berlin Wall fell, and when Russians showed the world their true sympathies during 19-21 August 1991. But I also remember remarking, "I hope the US gets it right regarding Russia." Despite the advice of Kennan, Ambassador Jack Matlock, and others who knew and understood Russia, US policy under Clinton, and then Bush2, was hijacked by the unscrupulous neo-cons. I have been the strongest of anti-Communist and anti-Soviet Reagan Conservative Republicans my entire life, to include military service in combat zones and putting my life on the line for what I believed (1980s). However, once the 90s came around, and Clinton and Bush2, under neo-con influence, started behaving like the Soviets used to (bombing innocent Serbs in 1999, who already were getting rid of Miloshevich; trying to force an alien system on other peoples, under the false guise of "democracy,"), I became thoroughly disgusted. How could I support the US doing the same thing the Soviet Communists used to? On the other hand, in Russia, the power of the Communists was thrown off, and although still suffering from the Soviet legacy and still not perfect, Russia is becoming more and more the beacon of hope that the US used to be! Having lived in Russia for several years, and having known and visited the USSR during the evil Brezhnev days, I can compare myself how so much has changed. Churches are full and growing. There is almost total harmony between Muslim Tatars and Christian Russians, for example (it's not for nothing that Hillary Clinton recently visited Kazan). Life is not the best, but overall it is good, and a lot better than it was by far than during the 70s under Brezhnev. So my conclusions have come from a lifetime of study, and from personal experience. I am ashamed of the neo-con direction the US has taken, and am also afraid that all of these shenanigans have initiated the ruin of my native country, the country I love and was brought up to love and respect and defend, the USA. But unfortunately, the US seems to be very much on the decline, and the domestic policies of Barack Obama just seem to be accelerating this demise. Too bad the US doesn't have such sterling leaders like Medvedev and Putin. It is my dream that the diehard cold warriors in both the US and Russia will bury the hatchet and make way for a new generation of bold leaders, not afraid to form a US-Russia alliance. Putin and Medevedev have it right, but there is no one in the US leadership yet who can meet the challenge. And remember folks, it was the realistic and idealistic (and conservative and anti-communist) Nixon and Reagan who made the most striking advances toward world peace with China and the USSR, strategic arms limitation and reduction treaties, etc.
I do not see Obama as that man. He has too many neo-cons and russophobes advising him, starting with his own VP, Joe Biden!
21 November, 2009, 20:15
I just watched a TV report on the BBC about the 100,000 Somali's, yes, 100,000 that were brought to Minnesota to "start" a new life. Well,the end of the story came and about 30,000 nice Somali's(young men and women) have taken up covert action to bring down the USA and KILL all her people! Nice people these Africans! What a country! The USA needs to be taken over by Putin!
21 November, 2009, 15:24
john
I agree with John.It does indeed look as if under Medvedev Russia is becoming a US satellite state. I also agree he does not understands or see, the greater picture and danger to Russia. Medvedev is making the same mistake as Gorbachov in accepting at face value what the US tells him. Did not the US Secretary of State James Baker 111 tell Gorbachov that the former Warsaw Pact countries would not become members of NATO? Like many non- Russian citizens we looked for a person who would be a counter balance to the US "world domination",polocies, at one time we could rely on France, But now the French President seems to be vying with the British Prime Minister to see who can be the most faithful puupy to the US. With Mr Putin as Russian President we did have that counter balnce. Now we do not. Perhaps when all the mobile SS Missile systems are in place in Poland, Czech Republic, Georgia, Ukraine and other locations, Medvedev will realise the errors he made in appeasing the US, but by then it will be to late. The failure of Russia to honour its contracts with Iran are also not a good sign
21 November, 2009, 11:27
Bianca chooses to view this discussion exclusively through the lens of “neo-conservatism” (“neocons”). According to her, this explains my views, the views of certain writers whom I have quoted, the views of the Dalai Lama and a large number of other unnamed people, indeed the views of anyone who has something negative to report about Russia and Communism. According to Bianca, the neocon label both explains the reason for those views, and is the primary and only evidence needed to comprehensively dismiss those views. So by way of response, I will briefly discuss neo-conservatism, then my own position in regard to it, and thirdly some specific points from Bianca’s post.
First, neo-conservatism. There is no neocon party, organisation, society, company, or what have you. In this regard, neo-conservatism is quite different from, say, the Communist Party, the Masonic Lodge, the Nazi Party or the Dog and Goat Society. Neo-conservatism is a descriptive term which lacks coherent definition and coherent structure or any coherent membership even, and is increasingly used as a catch-all pejorative term for those who take issue with the abuses committed by Communism generally, the Soviet Union specifically, and Russia as the heir of both. As such, it is a label that is useful as a ploy to avoid analytically considering and logically discussing specific issues which are uncomfortable to some people, and for demonising, at a stroke, both those views and the holders of them. Using the label, “neocon” does not distill understanding, but obscures it.
Secondly, as to myself, I do not apply any labels to me or my views. I believe people and their views are more complex than simplistic labelling can convey. Before the time of neo-conservatism I never considered my self as an “archeo-conservative”, as I had many disagreements with conservative views. Nor did I consider myself a “liberal” for the same reason. I distilled my views from what I experienced, from what I saw, from what I knew, and as I have not fundamentally changed those views over the years, I cannot be a "neo-” anything, either. I present facts as I am aware of them, welcome factual discussion of them on the basis of verifiable factual evidence, and eschew labelling. If you want to pin any label on me at all, then pin the anti-label label.
Thirdly, some specific points from Bianca’s post.
(1) “Neocon world view is based on mad thinking … they are driven by madness.” Undoubtedly some to whom Bianca imputes neo-conservatism are mad, and undoubtedly some aren’t. The same may also be said for the rest of the human population. Inducting someone into the ranks of neocons, imputing a world view to all neocons (whatever “neocons” are) and calling both them and their world view mad neatly absolves one of the need to analyse specific arguments of specific people. Or does it?
(2) “They keep on repeating the same tales, tirelessly.” I guess Galileo also kept repeating tirelessly that Earth orbits the sun. The truth of Galileo’s assertion had little to do with either his tirelessness or with his tiresomeness, but on the underlying facts upon which he based his view. Same with those of the amorphous grouping whom Bianca calls neocons.
(3) “In their grand schema, Russia is the grand target.” I guess some might have alleged that in Galileo’s grand schema, the pope was the target of his heliocentric persuasion; but if they thought that, they would have been just as mistaken as Bianca. If certain realities are evoked, certain conclusions follow on from them. If the underlying realities are correct, then so are the conclusions, and vice versa. Beginning by imputing the motive of demonising Russia, and working backwards from there to the tirelessness of the proponents of some views, is like looking the wrong way through a telescope – to evoke another Galilean figure.
(4) The relative economic status of Russia, China, Europe and America may or may not be a problem to the alleged insane thinking of the supposed madmen whom Bianca conjures up for us. But more importantly, it is reality. And not only are the surface layers of those countries’ situations real – so are the deeper layers all the way to the core, and all of this reality will determine eventual outcomes because reality – all of it – is real. Now whether I and my thinking are as insane as Bianca suggests I do not know – after all, insane people are probably badly placed to judge their own sanity because their instrument of judgment is what is broken. But for my part, I would love to see a secure, democratic, prosperous, stable and content Russia that enjoys a relationship based on genuine friendship and genuine respect with all its neighbours. Such a Russia, and such a neighbourhood, would deliver the best quality of life for all concerned.
(5) As for how China is destroying Tibetan culture, for self-evident reasons Tibetans’ voice has to be accorded much, much more weight in any such discussion than China’s. And Tibetans’ voice is fairly consistent on this subject. For a general sense of what that voice says, Google “Tibet Online.”
21 November, 2009, 02:51
I Just have to say GO Medvedev, Putin and RUSSIA, you are doing very well ,and President Medvedev has just made a knock out to the western media. Wish you the best from Guatemala.
20 November, 2009, 20:55
Marzipan6,
your last post has finally convinced me that your worldview is shaped by the neoconservative narrative. All the stock phrases, all the definitions, all the "evidence" for their world view seems to be reflected in your writings. The choice of authors had me finally convinced. Anne Applebaum? I follow her regularly. She can be decorated and honored, but she is a neocon in a different garb. One gets chills reading her not so subtle aggressive posturing.
What makes a good writer? Sure, both Lucas and Applebaum can spin a sentence really good. But their bias is vile. The reason most people get a nauseating gag reflex reading such authors, is that most of us have some residual sense of conscience. And that prevents us from spinning a tale to my own liking, while distorting the reallity. And doing it in great style of a great writer. Frankly, this is what disgusts me.
Neocon world view is based on the mad thinking. It assumes that a world domination is possible, and they see themselves lording over it. Had Europeans had enough presence of mind, they could have stopped Hitler's rise to power early. They did not sense the madness that the elite of German society bought into, and then hoisted their deranged thinking onto the empoverished population.
I see neocons in the same light. They are driven by madness. I sincerly hope you can see through their "reputable" garb, and grasp the real message behind their fanciful intelectualism. And please do not think The Economist can be held up as a standard. I read it daily, and I see their pattern. They still do not get it: the colonial talk-down to the rest of the world is over. They are hopelessly behind times, stuck in the ideology and the vocabulary that belong to the high flying neocon era that began in nineties. Those were the days. When the "humanitarian" neocons ruled through Clinton's sleeze machine to continue lording over the Bush's clueless appointees.
Neocons know full well that the public opinion around the world has seen through their narrative. But they are not giving up. They keep on repeating the same tales, tirelessly. Who knows. Perhaps their buddies in the Federal Reserve can punish all those that dare not to see their greatness.
In their grand schema, Russia is the grand target. Just the thought of one country possessing this nuclear power is sufficient to drive them over the edge. The power hugry neocons understand only power. They cannot concieve of the world where nations coexist with all of their differences, for as long as everyone respects the international law. And why would they? They feel that the their will has to be imposed upon others. Their phylosophy can be summed up as follows: The only way to demonstrate power is to make someone do what they do not want to do.
This has been neocon credo for the longest time. Much of the US foreign policy has been based on "demonstrating power", not securing national interests. Neocons do not think like most people. They do not believe that superpower should be held back by international law. That is only for the weak to hide behind, and for the strong to prove that hiding behind the international law would not save you from the ire of the empire should you choose defiance.
But the problem has occured for neocons. Slowly but surely, the economic power has shifted to the East, while "Putin's" Russia was not crushed by the financial crisis. China has emerged much stronger. Other regional powers are moving in to fill the vacuum, economically and politically. Brazil in Latin America and Turkey on the Medditeranean. Iran's emergence as a regional power is being resisted by whatever means, while the much weakened Japan looks to China as a saviour in its most desparate financial hour. The special relationship with India is lately being tested. The traffic between Delhi and Moscow has become very heavy lately. In the last six months, India's president, Prime Minister (twice), Foreign Minister and the Defence Minister have visited Moscow. India has found itself in a predicament embracing too closely US positions.
Europe may find itself having more freedom. What will Europe do with it, is never certain. European moral code has never been reliable.
Neocons pushing this and all previous governments are getting desparate. They cannot impose their will on their former puppet in Afghanistan, so are now reduced to badmouthing him.
Most of the journalists and media people today still mimic the neocon narrative. And for good reason. Neocons dominate think tanks, newswires, commentaries and other news generating outlets. Then there are "serious" writers, bloggers, and "serious" media that echoe their message.
But the message is getting hollow. One needs to read only few lines from such writers to quickly pick up the narrative line.
They have their favorite lines. The ones about "Putin" or "Chechya" are already so hollow and boring, that one just wants to tell those people to get a life.
The standard line about Tibet is very interesting. China is "destroying" Tibetan culture. But nobody can actually say how exactly? What has been China doing all these years since 1959 when the rule of the slave-owners ended that clearly demonstrates that China is "destroying" Tibetan culture? How exactly? Usually, the answers are clever side-steps that avoid any meaningfull discussion. For example, China is bringing in Chinese to Tibet! And that proves what? That the trade has increased, and the standard of living is lifting in desparately poor Tibet. But the neocon thinking does not think that economic improvements are important (well, not for Tibet), something else is. What is that something else? Nobody can say. Nobody can say that China is prohibiting Tibetans from practicing their religion, their customs, or engaging in earning livelihoods. Just as many Chinese have taken advantage of the new railroad to Tibet, so are many Tibetans going to China for better work.
Nobody can say that China did not spend a mint renovating the dilapidated monasteries. The wealthy ex-feudal lords who stashed their money in the West, did not help their breathern and donate to fix the monasteries. Oh, no. They would have preferred to see them crumble so that the world will have the evidence of China's "destruction" of Tibetan culture. Well, this set up did not work.
All that Dalai Lama is trying to do is to restore some form of feudal priviledges in Tibet for his elite followers, even if this means under Chinese rule. China does not want a Trojan horse back. So that is where we are at.
In India accross the border from Tibet, the exiled Tibetans are in the quandry. The older generation loves Dalai Lama, and eschews the economic progress on Tibetan plateau. This is not the case with the young. They see the life under Indian Government where nothing has changed in the last fifty years, no improvements no progress. And they realize that life is moving on accross the mountains on Tibetan plateau.
20 November, 2009, 20:44
It looks like Misha (Suckasshvili) has been a bad boy or in US/Britain and EU’s case a very good one with the Georgian interior minister holding private meeting with Basayeav in 2004 and actively supporting Chechen terrorism.
http://www.nationalinterest.org/Article.aspx?id=22498
Which is not a surprise as I have been documenting and writing about for years how starting from 89 and 91/92 how western intelligence has been sponsoring terrorism in the Balkans, Russia, Eurasia and around the world.
Seriously Bogandov and others why is this issue of western terrorism and organised crime not taken seriously by Russians?
@Marzipan6
I had a more detailed post with links but at least half the comment got published including the real history and situation in Tibet although I cited references to works but other authors and professors like Kevin MacDonald and former AFP reporter Michael Hoffman II about who Stalin’s hangmen actually were.
I am guessing in Mr Rayfield works he does not cite US senate investigation that lists the financiers of Communism in Russia or the Encyclopaedia Khazaria which they themselves list who the top leaders of Communism were or the fact that all the pre-revolutionary Marxist Socialist groups were created by non-Russians including the group that killed Czar Alexander II and the first “Russian” Marxist Nicholas Utin.
Mr Lucas is a propagandist for Rothschild from some of the main points of his book and his assertion that the Kremlin did it can be debunked.
Litvenenko case were all the evidence points to the fact that he was involved smuggling plutonium for Berezovsky/MI6. The official story/narrative is a lie which the evidence proves.
Politkovskaya (daughter of Soviet elites in New York) murder where even her son does not think the Kremlin killed her and why would they suddenly in 2006 when all the major Chechen warlords were killed and on Putin’s birthday (o’gee you wouldn’t be trying to indirectly implicate the Kremlin) perhaps he would like to comment of Berezovsky critic and Putin supporter Paul Klebnikov murder in Moscow in 2004.
Changes in regional elections after the Beslan massacre in the region to combat terrorism which are aligned with regional leaders and criminal gangs which proved successful of course that was painted as being un-democratic.
Central Bank murder were there has been a trail and conviction
Arrest of Khoderkovsky Rothschilds man in Russia fails to mention his arrest was because he was about to sign a contract with Exxon-Mobile signing over Yukos oil and gas transit pipeline rights to the US abroad essentially outsourcing the bulk of the Russian economy.
And there is probably other examples I could list if I knew more of the content of his book.
And what exactly critical things does he or Mr Mr Rayfield say about the Soros/CIA installed regimes in Ukraine and Georgia.
In my original post I had a description of the situation in Ukraine how the Orange coup regime has plunged the country into poverty and debt and like in 91/92 the foreign investment 80% worth is going straight into the banks.
Perhaps these two clowns would like to comment on that situation.
@Bogdanov
This issue and Russia's total failure to debunk this propaganda is what especially when the exact same thing happened to the Serbs in the Balkans wars during the 90's.
Not just in Russia but Bosnia, Kosovo Central Asia, Pakistan, Algeria, Afghanistan (fought with the Taliban) and Iraq.
Have you read Paul Murphy's excellent book Wolves of Islam?
19 November, 2009, 16:04
johnx. Good post.
Regarding Chechnya I may just add, that while the West was outraged by "Russian military invasion" to this Russian territory, the neocons were quiet about the fact that that at the dusk of the USSR and initial years of the post-Soviet Russia some Chechen's radical groups were running slave (literally) camps on their territory. They kidnapped people around the country, brought them in Chechnya, and nobody ever saw them again. Using the weakness of the Soviet/Russian system of that time, the Chechen extremists and separatists unrolled the full-fledged genocide, basically, returning this part of the USSR/Russia back to the dark ages. And they were cruel as animals. And not only on their territory. The groups of terrorists periodically (and quite often) run to the neighboring Russian districts. At the time while I was living in that region, there was a case, then the terrorists caught Russian family, cut them on pieces, and hanged the body parts on the tree. And numerous cases of just "regular" killing and kidnapping.
And I have serious doubts that neocons didn't know about it. Because, those Chechen guerrillas were trained in the mojahedin camps in Pakistan and Saudi Arabia sponsored and financed by them. But, the Western media (with the help of "journalists" like Lucas) twisted everything -- victims became bad guys, and terrorists became victims. And not many people in the West know the truth -- that the war in Chechnya started to clean that territory from animals in the "human uniform". This war became a disaster for Russia later, when Russian oligarchs and high-rank criminals realized that they could use this war for money laundry. And as such they were interested to prolong this was as much as possible. In the expense of all those people who lived in those regions (not only Chechnya, but also the neighboring territories) and whose live they turned to hell...
I think, Putin did pretty good job to heal those wounds and return live there back to normal. But, again, people in the West don't know that. Because, this piece of information "conveniently" was not put into the "pipe" which feeds them.
19 November, 2009, 09:19
Bogdanov, if you Google “Donald Rayfield” or the titles of some of his books that I named in my original post, you will come across a very large number of on-line entries about him. While most of these may not provide an analysis of the man himself, together they demonstrate the fact that he is a serious scholar, and reflect the credibility in which he is generally held.
As for Edward Lucas, you will also find a fair bit of information about him on the web. He is likewise respected in his own field, which is that of journalism and writing – The Economist is not a radical publication and does not employ extremists. His comments about Russia are informed by the fact that he has had at least 20 years of direct personal experience of Eastern Europe, having lived and worked in many countries there, including Estonia and Russia, and this experience enables him to drill down to facts without suffering from either Western preconceptions or Russian propaganda. As you will appreciate, I know Estonia fairly well. So does Lucas, and he writes a fair bit about the country, not all of it flattering, I might add. However I have never known the information he has written about the country to contradict my own first-hand knowledge of the place. Nor have I ever known him to write anything about Russia that contradicts what I know to be Estonians’ first-hand experience of Russia.
His book, “The New Cold War”, actually makes chilling reading, and places the few sentences that I quoted from it firmly into context. Anne Applebaum, 2004 Pulitzer prize-winning author of “Gulag: a History” (which I have also read and recommend) makes the following comment on Lucas’ book: “Edward Lucas is one of the best-informed, best-connected and most perceptive journalists writing about Putin’s Russia. ‘The New Cold War’ is essential reading for anyone who wants to understand what is happening in Eastern Europe and the former Soviet Union today.”
As for your comments about traditions not always being something positive, I already agreed with that point from Bianca’s post. But setting aside some negative traditions is not justification for eventually destroying a whole culture.
19 November, 2009, 00:32
Marzipan6. After I read your original post where you mentioned names Rayfield and Lucas, I spent some time trying to find out who they are. I couldn't find much information about Rayfield, but Lucas is more or less exposed... Interestingly enough, but my first impression about him is exactly the same like Bianca's -- Lucas cannot be considered as legitimate source of information about Russia. As I see it, he created that image of "ugly Russia" in his head and devoted his life to prove it (I guess, paid well for this by neocons). He has been studying Russia and Russians as animals in the zoo -- outside the cage and with attitude of superiority. He, seems, one of those parasites who keeps the regular Western people in darkness and creates problems between nations. I may be wrong, though. But, as I said, this is my impression after studying his biography and spending some time on his blog...
He is my point with this introduction. Similar to Bianca, I think, Lucas was bad choice of yours to support the view you presented. Because, normally, I consider your words as legitimate ones assuming that they come from your own experience or things you know for sure. I know little bit about Chechnya and Caucasus, I used to live among Muslims in Russia. The nonsense and russophobic garbage which Lucas poring to the media doesn't match what I know for sure. Or, as a minimum, his view is shamelessly unbiased and one-sided. So, now, after this simple reality check fails -- I have to dismiss your words as well. Because, they come from Lucas...
Another thing where I support Bianca -- maintaining traditions is not necessarily a good thing. For example, before Soviet system was brought to Central Asia, it was a place full of traditions. The traditions, where women existed only to serve men. Where vast majority of the population had only one choice -- to spend all their life looking after flocks of sheep. Where several super-rich from the ruling cast had unlimited power and full control of their half-slaves. The worst part -- their primary tradition was to keeps things as they are. The Soviets brought civilization there. Many of those natives, who would never had chance even to erect themselves from that eternal bows, were able to improve the quality of their lives significantly. So, I would, personally, very welcome to crash to dust those traditions which maintain the society in the state where relationships between humans mimic those from the animal kingdom.
Bianca. You said: "I understand that many in the west would prefer to see Tibet stay frozen in time". I think, that the West doesn't care about Tibet per se. The neocons care about Tibet as long as it allows them to mess with China. I am quite sure, that if relationships between the US and China will become a complete "brotherhood", the "problem" with Tibet will go away by itself. Without any changes in the current relationships between China and Tibet.
18 November, 2009, 22:44
Great article John, love your show.
marzipan6, you keep on saying soviet Russia, wasn’t it the Soviet Union or to be exact the USSR? Or maybe you think that USSR stands for Union of Soviet Socialist Russia, well sorry to tell you that USSR stand for Union of Soviet Socialist Republics.
What I understood is you would want Putin or Medvedev to apologize for the USSR (Union of Soviet Socialist Republics) atrocities during Stalin’s era? Why don’t you ask Saakashvili to apologize? If you didn’t know Stalin was Georgian. The prime minster of Australia apologized for the atrocities that Australia committed. I don’t think that Putin or Medvedev (who are Russian and are the leaders of Russia, not Soviet Russia or USSR or any other made up country you conjure ) should apologize for USSR’S (Union of Soviet Socialist Republics) ethnically Georgian leader (Stalin) atrocities.
I think that marzipan6 is trying to heat up the debate.
18 November, 2009, 21:14
@Marzipan6
Who created and ran the GULAG system?
Who trained, financed and installed Communism in Russia?
I am glad you posted those quotes as it exposes the dismal state of our media and academia especially in regards to Russia and foreign affairs which acts as a propaganda outlet refute you're remarks and the sources you quote especially on the issue of the bogus "genocide" of the Chechens and social and economic decline of Russia of IMF imposed economic agenda with the sorry state of affairs which constitutes or mass media The only ones being genocided in Chechnya were the ethnic Russian population first rapes, kidnapping, murders by the first presidents militias and purges of ethnic Russians from the local government and ethnically cleansed the entire Russia and non Russian population of Russia 200,000+ from there region bombed out of there villages by warlords who moved Chechen families into there villages.
You could also add to there path of destruction Bosnia, Russia’s neighboring Republics and across Russia, Central Asia, China, Kosovo, Waziristan and Iraq.
Miraculously the ethnic Chechen population has more than doubled by 2002 a time where they said a impossible 150,000 more people were killed in a 2 year period which you also have to take into account by their own words that half the population immigrated abroad after the first war, killed in the civil war (why Russia entered the region in the first place), killed in terrorist training camps in Afghanistan fighting US and British forces in Iraq and Pakistan, those killed by foreign Jihadists/organized crime, etc while the ethnic Russia’s population has declined by nearly 4 million.
By 1998 4 million Russian children had died due to preventable diseases.
As for the depopulation of groups in the Arctic the period he cites is when the Oligarchs in 96 heavily financed and promoted with there control of the media put Yeltsin into power for a second term and as well as other institutions like OSCE help rig the election to bring Yeltsin into powers where these western/Israeli Russian oligarchs and had total control of the government appointed there people into power and the worst part with Berezovsky who appointed himself the head of security in Russia secretly aiding and abetting Chechen militants.
In 98 these thieving Oligarchs had the audacity to star in a real life series for Israeli TV called The Oligarchs boost about there exploits and
In that year Soros orchestrated the 98 Asia financial crash that severely damaged the Russia economy even further.
And everyone admits that Russia’s disastrous post Soviet decline was due to Soros/Harvard economists “shock therapy” that dismantled the industrial center, caused hyper-inflation were foreign currency pumped into western banks in rigged auction run by Khodorkovsky with money forwarded by
Maybe if Mr Donald Rayfield contacted actual experts on the region who have been reporting there the entire time and interviewed them which consists of about 5 people which includes people like Robert Bruce Ware and former CIA counter terrorism official in Russia Paul Murphy who runs Russian Eurasian Terror Watch Analysis
If he is so concerned about Russia then perhaps he can speak to Berezovsky who resides in London and petition these other Oligarchs that laundered $1 trillion into offshore accounts. .
So it was when the Oligarchs came to power the Arctics regions population declined only when Putin came to power and abandoned IMF imposed economic policy did standards improve and population grows start. We will see if 2010 census shows an increase in there population.
So it is not Russia that it is committing genocide it is Britain, US and the EU.
As for Mr Lucas he is the chief propagandist for the Rothschild owned Economist newspaper the same Lord Rothschild who owned the Yukos oil company who through the Menatep bank help launder billions of dollars to an offshore account in the Isle of Man and his frontman George Soros engineered the economic collapse of post-Soviet Russia
And he admits that his book The New Cold War he did not research it himself he was commissioned to write the book which he wrote in a think about 2 months (not completely sure on that one) and his publishers sent him all the relevant information.
I have not read his book which I hear is basically a rehash of western media coverage of Russia over an 8 year period with the easily debunked threat being the main thesis of his book.
The truly genocidal mafia regime in Kosovo KLA who have tortured, massacred and ethnically cleansed almost the entire Serb populations and is the premier mafia, drug and sex capital of Europe who run terrorist training camps have hired the Economist to run propaganda for their regime paying them 5.7 million euros (drug and sex slavery money because that is the economy).
“As part of the campaign for changing Kosovo image in the world, Kosovo separatist authorities engaged the renowned London weekly paper The Economist to spread propaganda that separatist run province is not a mafia-ran entity.
Separatists are to pay 200,000 euros so that several texts favorable of Kosovo separatist can appear in 5,000 copies.
Eminent European journalists, particularly from the countries with large communities of Albanian immigrants, describe Kosovo as mafia state and a territory safe for criminals and drug smugglers, with weak institutions governed by corrupt family networks, and in some cases as the European Columbia, which portrays the presumed role of Kosovo as the great European drug supplier, the media in Pristina reported on Wednesday.
However, three introductory pages of the new issue of The Economist magazine have been added to the usual in order to claim that what prominent journalists say is not true.
The expanded addition of The Economist will also run by 5,000 more copies from its regular 1.3 million circulation.
All this is in part with the agreement The Economist made with the separatists that hold grip on power in Kosovo.
Kosovo separatists have hired the Israeli company Saatchi & Saatchi to make media believe that Kosovo is a good place.
Separatists have allocated 5.7 million euros for such propaganda activities.
Kosovo is a Serbian province whose Albanian violent separatists have illegally declared independence in 2008 after ethnically cleansing over two thirds of the Serbian population while NATO troops, there since 1999, claim they are there to keep peace. The remaining Serbs are exposed to daily attacks of various sorts. Some states have extended a diplomatic recognition to these separatists claiming the province is a “unique” case”
There not automatically branded extremist if they are it is because western backed Islamic terrorist have recruited and set up terror cells in Tatarstan and other regions.
The CIA through Turkey and Saudia Arabian finance Fetullah Gulen Universities and schools have spent millions of dollars in Russia and Central Asia to promote radical jihadism.
That’s just a lie about minority groups because Russia has spent millions in restoration of different minority groups regions they even have Duma representation for the minority black population in Russia.
Hypocritical for him to talk about minorities when Britain is involved in secret rendition flights across the world of Muslims who I might add the top terrorists leaders and recruiters like Abu Qatada and Abu Hamza were in the pay or worked with MI5/MI6 recruiting terrorists to fight in Bosnia, Chechnya and Central Asia or the above mentioned Kosovo where the regime launches pogroms and terrorist attacks against the Serb minority population destroying over 100%+ churches and Iraq where 1,500 intellectuals and academia have been killed by 2006 and how the US was training death squads for there appointed leader.
Did he have any serous criticism towards the Oligarchs in Russia during their reign in the 90’s?
Perhaps he would like to comment on the situation in Ukraine
18 November, 2009, 12:20
To John, who has heard that children were removed from Britain and sent to institutions in Australia for some decades of the last century, and that many Aboriginal children were also taken from their families and placed into institutions. I wonder has he also heard that the Australian Prime Minister and the entire Australian federal parliament has deeply apologized for both of these events, and that these two separate apologies were broadcast live around the nation and cheered by people everywhere as they heard it?
John hasn’t heard that?
That’s all right, I haven’t heard that Yeltsin, Putin, Medvedev or the Duma has offered equivalent apologies, either, to Russians and their neighbors, or that these apologies were broadcast live throughout Russia and cheered by the people.
18 November, 2009, 12:17
I’m sorry that Bianca chooses to address the subject by way of expressing personal insults, and I will assure her and others that I will not do the same. A matter stands or falls on facts that pertain to it, not by the presumed character traits of forum participants.
In fact, I will agree with Bianca. The quotes I posted are indeed selective. They are a few selected sentences, one from a book of 528 pages written by a professor of Russian and Georgian at the University of London who is also the author of a number of other books including “The Literature of Georgia: A History”, and “Anton Chekhov: A Life.” My other quote is a few sentences from 260 pages which is published in 12 languages and is written by The Economist magazine’s senior Central and East European Correspondent. If Bianca wishes to read a less selective presentation of the matter, she will be easily able to obtain both books.
I also agree with Bianca on another matter, namely that asserting that China is destroying Tibetan culture is seriously offensive, and already explained in a previous post that the guilty readily find allegations of their guilt offensive. Whereas China finds the allegation offensive, Tibetans find the reality offensive beyond words. No, I have not been to Tibet recently, and neither, in fact, has the Dalai Lama. However, I have no reason to disbelieve the united voice of Tibetans on the matter both at home and abroad. Their claims have added credibility because I understand all to well and at rather closer quarters the modus operandi of Communist regimes elsewhere, and Tibetan allegations are entirely consistent with these.
There is even a third matter on which I agree with Bianca, namely that China has put a stop to some Tibetan social practices which were harmful. Just like Soviet Russia put a stop to more than some Nazi practices in areas that it occupied that were also harmful, to put it mildly. No one blames either the Communist Chinese or Communist Russians for that, and I have even heard the Dalai Lama comment on the fact that some Tibetan practices were bad and needed to be stopped. But in each case, Communists are blamed, and rightly so, for the regime with which they replaced such things.
18 November, 2009, 05:49
Reading some opinions and articles in the Western media and learning more about Medvedev, I have better understanding why Peter put these words in quotes -- "our kind of guy". Because, Westerners misinterpret Medvedev. And I agree with Peter -- they may be disappointed when they know him better. Because, he is not going to sell Russia to them. He is not reincarnation of Yeltsin. Medvedev is not playing any role and any game -- he is who he is -- the politician from the new generation. With the world view which is not very much bounded by countries borders and national differences. Who understands that the world is interconnected and interdependent. And who is willing and ready to be a member of the world community. He is ready to build the respectful relationships with others. But not in expense of the country he leads. The Westerners may find him being as tough (or even more tough) as Putin, if they cross certain threshold. He will be nice with them as long as they will be nice with him.
Again, I make this assumption, based on that information I have about him and those similarities I find between us. I, personally, could help and defend others as much as I can. I am ready to listen arguments and try to understand my opponents no matter how unreasonable they sound. But, in case of any conflict situation, I need zero microseconds to make decision which side I am on. And my actions will fast and determined.
18 November, 2009, 00:22
Marzipan6,
and you call these "facts"?
"And from pages 75 and 76 of “The New Cold War” by Edward Lucas (2008), Any organization that tries to represent Russia’s ethnic minorities can expect especially harsh treatment. Those from Muslim regions, such as Tatarstan, are immediately painted as extremists and terrorists. Anyone showing the faintest sympathy for Chechnya is risking their freedom, if not their life… Lower-profile causes with an ethnic dimension attract barely less vindictive treatment. The 600,0000 strong Mari ethnic minority, for example, is a remnant of the Finno-Ugric tribes whose lands once stretched from Siberia to the Baltic Sea…. After a brief national revival in the 1990s, they have now become the target of a vicious campaign of chauvinistic repression, spearheaded by the president of the republic, Leonid Markelov.”
What a pack of nonsense! Disregarding facts, telling untruths, dissembling. These are the ramblings of an obviously biased individual. But then, your standards are low. You live for exaggerations, demonization, white-wash --- all according to needs. Your selectivity is legendary, and cannot be taken seriously. I guess, if it amuses you, go on.
Your assertion that China is destroying Tibetan culture is seriously offensive. Have you visited Tibet lately? Even though Tibet was part of China for centuries, the world jet setter Dalai Lama makes it sound like China occupied Tibet, and he and his supporters had to flee. What he fails to say, and his Western interlocutors allow him to fluff-up, is that China has finally put the end on the Tibetan "tradition" of owning slaves. Landowning privileged class in Tibet were selling their servants and enslaved farmers for any reason, including payment of their gambling debts. China has been putting up with that "tradition" too long, and had to put an end to it. When the Dalai Lama and his hierarchy fled, they did so because the landowning and slave owning class was dispossessed. They could no longer live comfortably by the feudal system that sustained them for centuries. The time came for change, and Dalai Lama chose resisting the Chinese government instead. That was his choice. But to now pretend that it is Tibetan culture that is being destroyed --- please. I understand that many in the west would prefer to see Tibet stay frozen in time. A mountain top Brigadoon, that is impervious to the changes in the world. I am sorry that their experience will not longer be authentic. .
But up there in Tibet a little boy is is dreaming to drive a car someday. With the millions being pulled out of poverty each year in China, his goal will probably become reality. It would not be is the Dalai Lama and his landowning disgruntled feudal lords get their way.
17 November, 2009, 16:53
Peter,
Your article is spot on. I am sick and tired of reading all the pundits (certain Russian ones, too, like Masha Lipman) with all their inaccuracies. They don't have a clue!
Marzipan6,
As usual, your russophobia shines through loud and clear. Medvedev says all the right things, and the truth, and you STILL can't get over your chauvinism. Yes, Russia has many problems, and unfortunately skinheads and National Bolsheviks and Communists and Stalinists and many other groups rear their ugly heads. And there are way too many corrupt cops and bureaucrats, etc. A lot of this is a result of the evil parts of Soviet legacy, without a doubt. But Russia is progressing, and these jerks don't represent the typical Russian. "Shapka Monomakha tyazhela," and neither Putin nor Medvedev can "legislate morality" and decency. That's why it is so important for ALL (or at least most) European countries to return to their traditional morality-based Christian roots. Unfortunately, over 70 years of communism took a very heavy toll, to say the least. But Russia is leading the way to overcome this, especially under the outstanding leadership shown by Medvedev and Putin (and yes, Lavrov, too). When one compares Russia's current leadership to Georgia's, Belarus's, Kazakhstan's, Ukraine's, and all the other former Soviet republics, there is no contest. It is obvious that Russia has the most gifted leadership among them, thank God! So stop your bellyaching and constant criticizing of Russians for the sins of the Russian-hating USSR. Remember, Russians were the FIRST and MOST NUMEROUS victims of the Soviet Communist menace. That's a fact, Jack! Also, Lenin, Trotsky, Stalin, and their ilk were "equal opportunity murderers," killing or repressing anyone and everyone who (they thought) got in their way, regardless of their nationality, ethnicity or religion. This is why claims of genocide (in the strictest sense) ring hollow, because it was based on class warfare and annihilation of certain social groups, as opposed nationality or ethnicity (Chechen-Ingush and Crimean Tatars being the exception, but they were "ethnically cleansed" through deportations, and not sent to gas chambers). If the Soviets were guilty of genocide, then it would have to be extended to ALL nationalities and ethnic groups, TO INCLUDE THE RUSSIANS, because of the "equal opportunity" aspect of the Red Terror. That's why Solzhnenitsyn got it right, but too many today playing the "victims of genocide" card are simply wrong (this does not include the true victims of Nazi genocide during WW II), trying to deflect from their own countrymen's cooperation with the Red Terror (and trying to curry favor with the ignorant and uninformed russophobes and diehard cold warriors in the West). It's so easy to just blame it all on the "evil" and "barbaric" Russians, whose "DNA" (remember Bush's remark?) prevents them from having "democracy." Get my drift, Sherlock?
17 November, 2009, 14:44
M6, change the record. It is overdue, enough of that. If you do not have future in your artificial country move to the beloved West.
Josef Stalin was an Angel by all means. Atrocities committed by the evils of the West would deeply embarrass him. I just learned how poor children were hunted in Britain and Australia (both apparently democratic) taken away from their parents and sent to the Australian Gulag. 150 000 of them from Britain !!! What a democracy !!! Together with Australian Aboriginal children Australia were running children’s labour camps for 500 000 children between the years of 1930 and 1970. What a shame.